Mr. Ruby.

0400, 1, 2, and 3.

Mr. Hubert.

There are really three numbers?

Mr. Ruby.

Yes; then we have another phone, my private line which is 863--I have got to look it up myself. I never use it. I don't even have my own number.

Mr. Hubert.

Let me put it this way. Who would have access to those phones other than the public phone?

Mr. Ruby.

I am not through yet. We have some other phones. We do dry cleaning for J. L. Hudson Co. I don't suppose you have heard of them. We have two outside phones that we use in conjunction with their business. Now you are saying 1962. When are you speaking of 1962, when? Because we didn't take over Hudson's until December of 1962, so those numbers wouldn't mean anything.

Mr. Griffin.

What about 1963?

Mr. Ruby.

1963, yes; we had this.

Mr. Griffin.

What are those numbers?

Mr. Ruby.

863-0566.

Mr. Hubert.

Who would have access to those office phones as it were?

Mr. Ruby.

Well, most anybody in the office. We have about 10 office employees, and every once in a while some of the shop employees come up and use it.

Mr. Hubert.

To make long distance phone calls?

Mr. Ruby.

No. As far as long distance, I don't think so.

Mr. Hubert.

Have you checked the long distance records in any way?

Mr. Ruby.

I don't check them too carefully because we make so many. My partner lives out of town, and I always talk to maybe Miriam in the plant. We work together, we buy together sometimes. I talk to the Benton Harbor plant.

Mr. Hubert.

But you don't spot check it to see that----

Mr. Ruby.

No; I really don't spot check it that closely.

Mr. Griffin.

I wonder if we could get from Mr. Ruby, maybe if you would make a note of this, to provide us with a list of all of your office employees for the year 1963?

Mr. Ruby.

You don't know if this is a music teacher, do you? Probably my wife called.

Mr. Hubert.

We are speaking generally now.

Mr. Griffin.

We are speaking generally. First of all, I am not addressing myself to Mr. Bibul. Right now we are just addressing ourselves to the general problem who else might have used your phone. Do you think you could provide us----

Mr. Ruby.

Oh, sure; that is no problem.

Mr. Griffin.

With a list of all of the office employees which you had?

Mr. Ruby.

Sure; that is no problem.

Mr. Griffin.

You can limit that to the year 1963.

Mr. Ruby.

When you say provide a list, what do you want?

Mr. Hubert.

You want from April of 1962, don't you?

Mr. Griffin.

Give us the month of April of 1962.

Mr. Hubert.

During the lunch period if you have a chance you might be able to write that down too.

Mr. Ruby.

You are talking of all office employees April 1962. Well, we had some changes, several of them, you know.

Mr. Griffin.

And then you can skip the remaining months and give us all of 1963.

Mr. Ruby.

You just want their names. You don't want any addresses or phone numbers or anything, just their names?

Mr. Griffin.

Well, if you can give us addresses also we would appreciate it.

Mr. Ruby.

Oh, yes; I can take it off the employee payroll card. I can give you the whole thing.

Mr. Griffin.

Gives us names, addresses. and telephone numbers.

Mr. Ruby.

Do you want me to ask my wife specifically about that call to Northwestern University?

Mr. Griffin.

If you would?

Mr. Ruby.

Yes; because that may answer that one. What is that name?

Mr. Griffin.

Kirk Bibul.

Mr. Ruby.

And that was in April 1962?