Mr. Ruby.

Yes.

Mr. Hubert.

And he handled this for you?

Mr. Ruby.

Yes.

Mr. Hubert.

You gave him these details?

Mr. Ruby.

Yes.

Mr. Hubert.

Have you invested any money or loaned any money to Jack after 1960?

Mr. Ruby.

After 1960?

Mr. Hubert.

Yes.

Mr. Ruby.

Yes; I think I did. I don't remember the exact figure.

Mr. Hubert.

What was it in connection with, and about when did it occur?

Mr. Ruby.

It must have been just about 1960.

Mr. Hubert.

It was in addition to the $6,000 that we have been talking about?

Mr. Ruby.

I think that is the figure, but I am not sure.

Mr. Hubert.

I don't know that you would have been able to take a loss for a bad debt or loan made in 1960, that is to say on your return for 1960.

Mr. Ruby.

I Say I don't recall. I don't recall the exact--I would have to check my records and see when I sent it down.

Mr. Hubert.

By your records, you mean checkbooks and so forth?

Mr. Ruby.

Oh, yes.

Mr. Hubert.

What sort of personal records do you have, Mr. Ruby?

Mr. Ruby.

We have a regular set of books.

Mr. Hubert.

Are you talking about the Cobo Cleaners?

Mr. Ruby.

No; even before that.
Mr, HUBERT. You mean you have a personal set of books?

Mr. Ruby.

Oh, sure. I mean by regular bank stubs and check stubs and statements.

Mr. Hubert.

You still have retained those?

Mr. Ruby.

I think so.

Mr. Hubert.

Did you have occasion to make a telephone call or send a telegram to Havana, Cuba, in 1962, in April of 1962?

Mr. Ruby.

April of 1962? The only reason I would have, Jack visited Cuba, Havana. I don't know if it was in April, and I may have talked to him. But I don't know, I am not sure.

Mr. Hubert.

You are acquainted with Jack's visit to Havana?

Mr. Ruby.

Yes; I know he went there.

Mr. Hubert.

Did he go there once or more than once?

Mr. Ruby.

As far as I know, once.

Mr. Hubert.

Isn't it a fact that that was in 1959?

Mr. Ruby.

I don't know. If it was in 1959, then I couldn't have made any call or sent any wire. As far as I know, to Cuba, in 1962. I don't remember any, anyhow.

Mr. Hubert.

Do you know anybody in Cuba?

Mr. Ruby.

No.

Mr. Hubert.

Can you think of any reason at all why you might have sent a telegram or made a phone call to Cuba?

Mr. Ruby.

No.

Mr. Hubert.

IS it possible that some employee of yours might have?

Mr. Ruby.

I am trying to think. I can't think of anyone. I knew of the fellow that Jack went to visit there, a fellow by the name of McWillie.

Mr. Hubert.

How did you know him?

Mr. Ruby.

Jack told me about him.

Mr. Hubert.

Have you ever met him?

Mr. Ruby.

No.

Mr. Hubert.

Do you recall that in the early part of this year, specifically on January 6, you were interviewed by an Internal Revenue agent who asked you about some calls and so forth, and that he mentioned to you something about a call to Cuba, and that you told him that you thought it was a telegram?

Mr. Ruby.

There should be some record of it if I did. I don't recall.

Mr. Hubert.

Do you recall a conversation with this Internal Revenue agent whereby he was questioning you concerning whether certain phone calls were properly deductible business expenses?