Mr. Hubert.

But I mean your accountant would not have handled the original sending of the money.

Mr. Ruby.

I sent a check, I am quite sure I sent the check.

Mr. Hubert.

To organize the company?

Mr. Ruby.

Yes.

Mr. Hubert.

And it was an investment or a loan, that is what I am trying to get at, or were there two separate transactions? You mentioned that Paul signed a note, and that would indicate that there was a loan made of some sort, you see.

Mr. Ruby.

Yes.

Mr. Hubert.

And then you mentioned that you got some stock which would indicate that the money was for an investment rather than a loan, or perhaps a combination. And that is what I am trying to find out, what it really was.

Mr. Ruby.

I am really not sure. I am really not sure.

Mr. Hubert.

Were you in a position at that time to advance that sort of money without investigating the possibility?

Mr. Ruby.

Well, it was my brother.

Mr. Hubert.

Have you ever loaned him money before?

Mr. Ruby.

Oh, yes; sure.

Mr. Hubert.

And you have got it back?

Mr. Ruby.

No; once before I loaned him some money, several times I loaned him money that I didn't get back.

Mr. Hubert.

Since he was in Dallas, you mean?

Mr. Ruby.

Oh, yes.

Mr. Hubert.

And you never took any notes from him?

Mr. Ruby.

Yes; I think I did several years before this, but I don't recall all the details on that, either.

Mr. Hubert.

Did he ever pay you anything back on the various loans that he made from you?

Mr. Ruby.

No.

Mr. Hubert.

How much would you say that he owes you now then?

Mr. Ruby.

Altogether?

Mr. Hubert.

Well, I don't mean including the money you may have expended since November 24th, but I mean up to that date.

Mr. Ruby.

I would say altogether maybe as much as $15,000 that I sent him.

Mr. Hubert.

And you have never got anything in return for it?

Mr. Ruby.

No.

Mr. Hubert.

Have you ever written off those loans as bad debts?

Mr. Ruby.

Yes.

Mr. Hubert.

The income tax return which you hold in your hand there says it is a worthless judgment note. Do you recall that you actually filed the lawsuit against Paul and recovered a judgment which you could not collect?

Mr. Ruby.

No; I don't think----

Mr. Hubert.

Do you recall ever hiring any lawyers in Dallas or in the Dallas area for that purpose?

Mr. Ruby.

No.

Mr. Hubert.

Can you clarify for us in anyway at all what this entry means?

Mr. Ruby.

Well, I explained it to my accountant, and he said that is how you write it off, as far as I know.

Mr. Hubert.

In other words, you simply gave him the facts?

Mr. Ruby.

The facts.

Mr. Hubert.

And he is the one who drew up the return?

Mr. Ruby.

Right.

Mr. Hubert.

I think his name is on the front of this. It would have been Mr.----

Mr. Ruby.

Let me see. Harold Kaminsky.

Mr. Hubert.

Isn't one of your sisters married----

Mr. Ruby.

That is what I was going to say. He is my brother-in-law.

Mr. Hubert.

Which sister is this?

Mr. Ruby.

Eileen.

Mr. Hubert.

She married Harold Kaminsky?

Mr. Ruby.

Yes.

Mr. Hubert.

He is an accountant, is he?