Mr. Senator.

I can't even answer that.

Mr. Griffin.

Then would you say that the mere fact that Jack had Sheba with him doesn't prove one way or another whether he planned to kill Oswald?

Mr. Senator.

I don't think he planned nohow.

Mr. Griffin.

I know you don't think that, but I want to know what significance we should put on the fact that he had Sheba with him. As I understand what you have been saying now, one could draw the conclusion. that simply because he had Sheba with him doesn't prove conclusively one way or another that he had a plan or didn't have a plan.

Mr. Senator.

I can't conceive anyhow that this man had any plans, nohow.

Mr. Griffin.

If you knew that Jack Ruby had taken Sheba to the club and locked her in the club and left instructions for somebody to take care of Sheba, would that affect your attitude as to whether Jack planned to kill Oswald or not? Would you still say----

Mr. Senator.

I would say it would still be of the same nature having the dog. I don't think he would do anything like that.

Mr. Griffin.

You just don't think he planned to kill Oswald?

Mr. Senator.

No; definitely not. I just never could visualize it. I can't visualize anything like this.

Mr. Griffin.

You also say in this, Moore also reports in this statement this language: "Also the fact that he had the cash receipts from the club in the car." Now I take it from that language that you are saying that you also think that Jack would have taken the cash receipts back to the club if he had planned to kill Oswald?

Mr. Senator.

The only thing I can say is that I would have to guess on my own and say I can only surmise that he wouldn't have had any cash with him. That is what I would guess. I don't know. First of all, he carries money both ways, see. Now Jack has always been under the impression wherever he goes, daytime or nighttime, that money, I don't say all his money but a certain part of money, what ever he puts in, is safe in the trunk. He feels it is safe in the trunk.

Mr. Griffin.

Let's suppose Jack Ruby had done this. Let's suppose he had taken his dog Sheba to the Carousel Club, left a note for somebody as to how to take care of Sheba, and had taken all the money out of the back of his car and locked it in the safe at the Carousel Club.

Mr. Senator.

What safe?

Mr. Griffin.

Didn't he have a safe there?

Mr. Senator.

He bought a safe but it was never fixed. He bought a safe, I'll tell you the kind of a safe he bought. To my knowledge it has never been put to use. He bought a safe that fits into the ground. Did you ever see these little round things that fit into the----

Mr. Griffin.

Yes.

Mr. Senator.

Well, this thing never materialized because the structure was never made for the safe, never made into the ground. Now if he ever used the safe I don't even know.

Mr. Griffin.

And did Jack ever put his money----

Mr. Senator.

Excuse me. The reason I say I feel he didn't, which I really don't know, I don't think he did, because the safe was able to be carried. It wasn't that big thing but when you cement it' around you can't get to it.

Mr. Griffin.

Let me ask you this. Was Jack in the habit of putting his money in the bank?

Mr. Senator.

No.

Mr. Griffin.

In other words, Jack's safe was his car?

Mr. Senator.

Not necessarily. He had it in his car, he had it in his pocket, and he had it around the house.

Mr. Griffin.

But you stated a while ago that Jack felt that if he had the money locked in the trunk of the car that was as good as being in the safe?

Mr. Senator.

Yes; I did, but I didn't say all the monies. I said a certain part of the monies. Now what part of it I don't know, because I know he carried some in there. I know he carried some in his pocket. I know he leaves some at home.

Mr. Griffin.

Did he leave any at home on the 24th?