Mr. Hubert.

Perhaps you can tell us this then. Since he didn't call upon you, you called upon him, what was the purpose of your visiting him? To find out the status of it?

Mr. Senator.

Of me?

Mr. Hubert.

Yes.

Mr. Senator.

No.

Mr. Hubert.

To find out the status of Ruby's defense, to see if you could help, to see if you could throw light upon it, to find out what was going on?

Mr. Senator.

Everything in general was going on, you know. The photographers were around and the newspapers were around, and I believe he was down at the Jailhouse. It is a conglomeration of things going on.

Mr. Hubert.

But you went to see him, and I suppose that was the purpose of the visit, that was the purpose in mind.

Mr. Senator.

No; there was no purpose in mind. It was just going to see him. When you say the purpose in mind--I was so mixed up myself I didn't know what was going on.

Mr. Hubert.

I am not trying to confuse you.

Mr. Senator.

There was no general purpose in mind.

Mr. Hubert.

What you are saying to us is then that you just went to see him, Mr. Howard, and that there was no purpose in mind.

Mr. Senator.

No particular purpose in mind. I saw him. I saw Jim Martin later on that day.

Mr. Hubert.

Will you excuse me a minute. Will you take over.
(Short recess taken.)

Mr. Griffin.

I will simply ask you to remember everything that Mr. Hubert has been in the practice of repeating before we proceed.

Mr. Senator.

If I can remember it.

Mr. Griffin.

To the effect that you are still under oath and we are continuing under the same circumstances that we began.
I believe we were talking about Monday, and you had indicated that on Monday you went to see Tom Howard.

Mr. Senator.

I saw him. I just don't remember where. Monday there was so much excitement going that when I say excitement, of the occurrence of the day before, and with your photographers around town and your pressmen and whatnot, you know, and the incoming of the FBI and things of that nature there, you know, it was a crazy cycle, you know.

Mr. Griffin.

Did you talk to any members of the Ruby family that day?

Mr. Senator.

I don't think I saw them that day. I can't quote every instance.

Mr. Griffin.

How about his employees?

Mr. Senator.

I think I went up--let's see, the club was closed Friday, Saturday and Sunday, and I think they did open Monday, and I think I was up there Monday night, if I am not mistaken, and, of course, going up there you had all your photographers, especially the ones from Europe and various parts were coming around. Of course, everybody wanted to see what the Carousel Club was. You know, it was just a mixed-up thing, so many things were going on there, and you were just roaming here and there, and, of course, people were questioning. A lot of people wanted to take pictures of me and this thing here. It was Just a jammed-up, mixed-up day.
I know I saw Tom Howard that day. I don't remember where I saw him, if I called on him or what it was because so many things were going on there and my mind was in a muddle even with that.

Mr. Griffin.

The questioning that took place on Monday, did it have to do with what you had done on Friday, Saturday and Sunday?

Mr. Senator.

No.

Mr. Griffin.

What Jack had done on Friday, Saturday or Sunday?

Mr. Senator.

No; there was nothing in general. I mean there was nothing particular. I mean all my questionings--I mean all my questionings---I had that Sunday you know, with the local detective or whoever the gentlemen was, and the FBI man.
But Monday, when they wanted to know about Jack Ruby, they wanted to see pictures of him. They wanted to see the club of his. They wanted to see