Mr. Hubert.

Was Jack there then?

Mr. Senator.

Yes. Jack was there. He had eaten, and he said he was going out. Now, where he went I don't know, but he said he was going out.
Mr. HUBERT, Would you describe his condition then?

Mr. Senator.

His condition was in the same thing it was in the past.

Mr. Hubert.

Was it like it was in the morning?

Mr. Senator.

Yes. He was in that same kind of condition.

Mr. Hubert.

He was no worse?

Mr. Senator.

Well, it is hard to say how much worse it was. He didn't look good.

Mr. Hubert.

The reason I asked that question is because----

Mr. Senator.

You know when you say "worse," I don't know how to put words together, you know, in expressions, the expression of an individual's face.

Mr. Hubert.

Let me show you what I mean. Perhaps you can help me when I tell you what I have in mind. You have told us earlier that you thought that his condition on Saturday morning was worse than it was on Friday night and early Saturday morning.

Mr. Senator.

Yes.

Mr. Hubert.

I think the expression you used, "the thing was getting at him," so that you formed the impression that the condition was worsening, isn't that correct? Is that a fair statement?

Mr. Senator.

That is the way it looked; yes.

Mr. Hubert.

Now I ask you if you will give us a comparison.

Mr. Senator.

I know what you are talking about, but I don't know how to compare these things, you know.

Mr. Hubert.

Was it worsening? Was it getting to him more? Did it seem to be getting to him more Saturday night as opposed to 12 hours earlier roughly Saturday morning?

Mr. Senator.

I would probably say it was of the same nature or something like that. It wasn't good, because for me to try to express, and I don't know how to express a facial nature. It is just hard for me to put in words. If you take the complete facial expression and the eyes and all that, I am not a connoisseur at just being able to express these things, you know.

Mr. Hubert.

No; I am just asking you for another comparison because you had given us a previous one, and I thought that another comparison between another period, two others periods, would be useful if you could give it to us, and that is all. I gather from you that your general impression was that there had not been much change in his condition over what it was on Saturday morning.

Mr. Senator.

I will say something in the same nature.

Mr. Hubert.

That it was of the same nature?

Mr. Senator.

Yes.

Mr. Hubert.

Do you recall what the nature of the conversation was between you two that night?

Mr. Senator.

No; because when I walked in, he was just about on his way out. I asked him if he ate. I told him I bought groceries. He said, "Well, I ate already." He ate.

Mr. Hubert.

How long after you arrived did he leave?

Mr. Senator.

Oh, God, within 5 minutes. It was just that short, that fast, and out he went. Now, I don't know where his visitation was. I don't know if he went to see his sister.

Mr. Hubert.

He didn't tell you where he was going?

Mr. Senator.

No.

Mr. Hubert.

Then or ever?

Mr. Senator.

No; he didn't tell me at all where he was going.

Mr. Hubert.

He never did tell you later?

Mr. Senator.

No; and I didn't ask him.

Mr. Hubert.

Then you don't know where?

Mr. Senator.

No; because when I went home, you know, when I got home I went to bed. I was going to bed.

Mr. Hubert.

And you went to bed about 10:30?

Mr. Senator.

I would say about half an hour later, maybe around 11.