Mr. Hubert.

Did you ever see him act in what might be considered brutal in the sense that he went further than he had to go with reference to anything?

Mr. Senator.

No; I have never witnessed any.

Mr. Hubert.

Do you know or have you ever heard of an occasion where he had a fight with a man who bit part of his finger off?

Mr. Senator.

I haven't seen it. I mean I see the finger. I have heard that, yes. How it happened I don't know. There was some sort of a fight and the guy bit it. Now what happened I don't know but I've heard that.

Mr. Hubert.

Did Jack ever talk to you about it?

Mr. Senator.

No; as a matter of fact I have noticed his finger, you know, I have seen his finger but I never asked him why, because it happens to be we both got the same type finger. Mine is a paper cut. His cut much more off than mine.

Mr. Hubert.

He never told you how he lost that part of the finger?

Mr. Senator.

He told me that he lost it, somebody bit his finger in a fight. Now I don't know if it was the Silver Spur or wherever it happened. I just don't remember where or how it happened.

Mr. Hubert.

Did you ever hear about him beating up a taxicab man who came in to fetch a fare, or to collect a fare?

Mr. Senator.

I have never seen it.

Mr. Hubert.

You have heard about it?

Mr. Senator.

I have heard about it. I never heard no names or anything of that. I heard about it but I have never seen it.

Mr. Hubert.

Now you have expressed to us your opinion that Jack is a man who was not fearful of anyone irrespective of size. Would you give us your opinion as to whether or not he was the type of man, from all you know of him, who would be brutal in a fight? By brutal I mean when he got his man down he would kick him and be sure he was down, kick him in the groin, in the head or something of that sort?

Mr. Senator.

I don't know. I couldn't answer that. I have never witnessed anything of this nature.

Mr. Hubert.

Have you an opinion?

Mr. Senator.

You would ask me guess then and if I guessed I wouldn't know what I was guessing at.

Mr. Hubert.

I would ask you to guess on the same basis that you expressed an opinion that he was afraid of nobody.

Mr. Senator.

He certainly wasn't afraid of size. In other words, if the man happened to be 6 inches taller than him he wouldn't back off.

Mr. Hubert.

And that was formed I think you told us from your general knowledge.

Mr. Senator.

That is right. He wouldn't back off.

Mr. Hubert.

What is your opinion from your general knowledge?

Mr. Senator.

Now when you ask me about kicking and all that, I mean I don't know.

Mr. Hubert.

You know the man and that is all I'm asking. Is he the type of man who would do that in your opinion?

Mr. Senator.

I don't think so. First of all I don't think so. Personally, I don't think so, but after all I can't answer for what another individual would think in his mind. I don't know, see.

Mr. Hubert.

We understand this is merely your opinion, you see.

Mr. Senator.

Yes; I don't personally think so. I don't think he would be that brutal.

Mr. Griffin.

You saw him in this fight with Taber or Tabin?

Mr. Senator.

Yes, but there was no kicking.

Mr. Griffin.

I want to ask you about this. I take it this was not a prolonged thing. Jack hit him once and that was it?

Mr. Senator.

No, no; there were probably six or eight blows swapped. But I would say Jack got most of the blows in.

Mr. Griffin.

And this guy swung. What caused Jack to stop? Did somebody pull him off?

Mr. Senator.

Yes; they stopped it. They stopped it and pulled off.

Mr. Griffin.

This episode at the Carousel that you saw, you say you didn't