Mr. Hubert.

What was his attitude towards these animals? Was it a normal attitude that people have to dogs?

Mr. Senator.

I know people have mentioned it to me before in the past and the quotations that I have heard though I have never heard them from him though I have heard them otherwise like "My family" or "My wife." I have read these. I am certain everybody else has too or heard it. But he liked dogs. To me this has no meaning. To me it has no meaning when he says this.

Mr. Hubert.

Did you hear these comments made by other people concerning Ruby and his dogs prior to the shooting or afterwards?

Mr. Senator.

What?

Mr. Hubert.

Prior to the shooting or afterwards?

Mr. Senator.

Prior I don't recollect. I don't say--it had to be prior to. No; it had to be prior.

Mr. Hubert.

You have read perhaps a lot about the dogs----

Mr. Senator.

Yes.

Mr. Hubert.

Since the shooting?

Mr. Senator.

I heard somebody mention once that he went up to see his Rabbi Silverman who I am certain you probably heard of I guess, and I don't know if he had two or three dogs with him or what it was. I'm not sure of the words he used but I think he said to the Rabbi "I want you to meet my family" or something like that. There was a quotation he used. Now this may have been it, I'm not sure.

Mr. Hubert.

Were there other people that you remember who commented to you about Ruby and his dogs? You have mentioned one. That is that he was----

Mr. Senator.

I heard two things already. One was "my family" and one was "my wife," which absolutely has----

Mr. Hubert.

Both of those you heard prior to the time Jack went to jail?

Mr. Senator.

Yes; these were prior to it, but when I heard it it was after, see.

Mr. Hubert.

I see. You mean that the remarks were made prior?

Mr. Senator.

The remarks were made after, that is right.

Mr. Hubert.

Wait a while, let me get that straight, the remarks were made after?

Mr. Senator.

After.

Mr. Hubert.

But the occurrences were supposed to have, the facts were supposed to have occurred prior?

Mr. Senator.

Prior. Right. Prior I never heard.

Mr. Hubert.

You do not remember having heard anything prior to the shooting?

Mr. Senator.

No.

Mr. Hubert.

What was your own opinion as to his attitude toward these animals?

Mr. Senator.

Like any other human being who had a dog for a number of years.

Mr. Hubert.

There was nothing abnormal about it?

Mr. Senator.

Nothing. To me, there was nothing absolutely abnormal about it. Just like anybody else having a dog, and I am certain anybody who has a dog he has had about 5, 6 or 7 or 8 years who is very much attached to him. I would probably say the overall picture. of the majority owners are attached to a particular dog of whatever the dog may be.

Mr. Hubert.

There is some rumor if you want to call it that that at some time or another Jack had a strange sort of relationship with one of the dogs. Have you any comment to make on that?

Mr. Senator.

No; I don't listen to that stuff because it is not true.

Mr. Hubert.

Of course, you never saw anything of that sort yourself?

Mr. Senator.

Never, never, and I tell you this from my heart.

Mr. Hubert.

From your knowledge of Ruby and his relationship with the dog, do you think that that is likely or unlikely?

Mr. Senator.

What?

Mr. Hubert.

From your knowledge of Ruby and of his relationship with those animals do you think that such a story is likely or unlikely?