Mr. Litchfield.

it and I remembered seeing a man similar to him, very similar to him at the Carousel that night I was there.

Mr. Hubert.

Did you say that to anybody?

Mr. Litchfield.

Just Don Green when I called him on the phone and-then when I went down to the police department.

Mr. Hubert.

Did you say that to any of the people you were playing poker with?

Mr. Litchfield.

No; I did not.

Mr. Hubert.

Would you give us the names of the people you were playing poker with, whose house was it at, first?

Mr. Litchfield.

J. W. Grubbs [spelling] G-r-u-b-b-s.

Mr. Hubert.

Where does he live?

Mr. Litchfield.

Boy, I can't tell you that--I can tell you how to go there, but I don't remember what street it is. You go out Beckley past the A. Harris shopping center--I don't remember the name of the street, you turn left and then you went down-a couple of blocks and you turn left again---there were three cars of us and I followed. I don't remember the name of the street.

Mr. Hubert.

Would you tell us the names of some of the other people at the poker game?

Mr. Litchfield.

J. W. Grubbs and there was Ernie Stoy [spelling] E-r-n-i-e and S-t-o-y, and one fellow I just met, he just came in--I didn't know, and another fellow, gee, I sure wish I could remember his name. I know him when I see him--they are always at the bowling alley, he usually bets on the pot games, and he is a big heavy set black headed fellow and Max Lewis was there.

Mr. Hubert.

[Spelling.] L-e-w-i-s?

Mr. Litchfield.

Yes [spelling], L-e-w-i-s, and I think there was one more---I don't remember who that was.

Mr. Hubert.

They were all there throughout the game were they all there throughout the game?

Mr. Litchfield.

Max left Sunday morning and then returned.

Mr. Hubert.

Now, at the time it became known that Ruby had shot Oswald, did you observe to anyone that you knew Ruby?

Mr. Litchfield.

I believe I did. I think everybody was saying whether they knew him or not and I believe I did.

Mr. Hubert.

Did anyone else there know him?

Mr. Litchfield.

I think one or two others might have said that they knew him.

Mr. Hubert.

Do you know whether Grubbs knew him?

Mr. Litchfield.

No, sir; I don't remember.

Mr. Hubert.

Who said they knew him?

Mr. Litchfield.

I could assume, but I don't remember who said that they knew him.

Mr. Hubert.

In any case, you did not at that time say that you thought you had seen Oswald in the Carousel?

Mr. Litchfield.

No, sir; I just said that--you are getting mixed up. I said--when it became obvious that Ruby had shot him, we were watching it on television, and we were, you know, how you are talking, "I think I know him," and I said, "I'm pretty sure I know Jack Ruby," and I said, "What is that idiot doing now?" Or something like that, and I forgot that someone said, "That
Oswald, I think I've seen him somewhere before," and that's when I said it.

Mr. Hubert.

You said the same thing, "I think I've seen him?"

Mr. Litchfield.

Yes.

Mr. Hubert.

When was it you began to associate Oswald as a man that you had seen somewhere before. and as also the man you had seen in Jack Ruby's club the last time you were there?

Mr. Litchfield.

I believe it was that day--not that I was associating necessarily it with Ruby--it was that everybody all of a sudden had seen him and they were trying to think where they had seen him and I was trying to remember where I had seen him.

Mr. Hubert.

Well, my point is that you ultimately came to tell Jack Green----

Mr. Litchfield.

Don Green.

Mr. Hubert.

Don Green, that you thought you had seen him at the Carousel?