Mr. Graves.

Yes.

Mr. Griffin.

Now, did Jack say anything?

Mr. Graves.

He didn't say anything to me. I understand that he said something, that is, some things to the officer that took him in. I----

Mr. Griffin.

I mean, as you were struggling with him?

Mr. Graves.

No; not to me. I had his arm over and my back to him and, of course, officers were covering him up, and when I got the gun loose from him, of course, they snatched him away from me, and by the time I got straightened up to check that gun and see if the hammer was back or not, they had already taken him into the jail office.

Mr. Griffin.

What did you do there? You were standing there or lying?

Mr. Graves.

I was standing. I never did go down.

Mr. Griffin.

Standing with the gun in your hand, what did you do at that point?

Mr. Graves.

Put the gun in my pocket and went on inside the jail office.

Mr. Griffin.

When you arrived inside the jail office, where was Ruby?

Mr. Graves.

Ruby was, I believe, to my right; just to my right, to the right of the jail office door. Of course, there were men around there and Oswald was back----

Mr. Griffin.

How long did you remain there?

Mr. Graves.

I didn't remain with Ruby at all. Just kind of hesitated and looked over and went on. I believe Montgomery asked me if I got the gun and I said, "Yes," and kept on.

Mr. Griffin.

Where did you walk?

Mr. Graves.

Walked back to where Oswald was.

Mr. Griffin.

Did you hear him say anything?
Mr. GRAVES, I didn't hear him say anything.

Mr. Griffin.

What did you do when you got back to where Oswald was?

Mr. Graves.

Stood there and watched the doctor work with him until the ambulance came.

Mr. Griffin.

Then what did you do?

Mr. Graves.

Well, they put him in the ambulance and I got in the ambulance with him and went to Parkland Hospital and got off there and took him right into emergency and worked with him a few minutes. And got him prepared for the operating room, and, so, we caught the elevator with him and with the doctors and nurses and went on up to the second floor, and I changed into one of those scrub uniforms and crepe-soled shoes and went over to the door of the operating room, where I stayed until such time as he was pronounced dead.

Mr. Griffin.

Outside of the operating room?

Mr. Graves.

Yes.

Mr. Griffin.

As you were standing outside of the operating room, did you hear discussion about how Ruby got into the building?

Mr. Graves.

No; I didn't---an FBI man came up there a little later and stood with me.

Mr. Griffin.

To go back just a minute, you have already told me this before in an earlier interview, but I want to make this clear for the record. You knew Ruby before this occasion when you saw him shoot Oswald?

Mr. Graves.

I will tell you how I knew Ruby. He opened a joint, a dancehall down on South Ervay called the Silver Spur something like 10 years ago, approximately. That is where I first knew Jack Ruby existed. Since that time I have just known about Jack Ruby----

Mr. Griffin.

How did you know him down there?

Mr. Graves.

Well, as a joint operator, you know, when you work in a uniform that is part of the business, to know who runs places.

Mr. Griffin.

What bureau were you in at that time?

Mr. Grave.

I was in the radio patrol bureau at that time.

Mr. Griffin.

I see.

Mr. Graves.

And later I learned that he opened a place out on Oak Lawn called The Vegas Club.

Mr. Griffin.

Did you see Ruby in the police department over the years before that?