Mr. Crafard.

I believe I was walking through a small town.

Mr. Hubert.

What was your reaction to it?

Mr. Crafard.

It was pretty hard to believe.

Mr. Hubert.

Did you tell anybody about it?

Mr. Crafard.

I think something was said to somebody I was riding with about it or something. Somebody picked me up shortly after I saw it, somebody I was riding with, and we had stopped in a cafe or something. I am pretty sure I discussed it with the person I was riding with.

Mr. Hubert.

You are pretty sure now?

Mr. Crafard.

The fact that I stated to him that it seemed almost impossible to believe. It seemed to be awfully hard to believe it.

Mr. Hubert.

Did you tell that person that you knew him?

Mr. Crafard.

Yes.

Mr. Hubert.

Did you tell that person that you had started to hitchhike up?

Mr. Crafard.

I to1d him I had worked for him, that I had left the day after Kennedy was shot, coming up from Texas.

Mr. Griffin.

What did he say?

Mr. Crafard.

I don't recall.

Mr. Hubert.

Were you with that person very long? Was he the one, for example, who took you into Mount Pleasant?

Mr. Crafard.

No; I don't believe so.

Mr. Hubert.

Now, let me see. I think you have refreshed your memory to some extent. You tell us now you are quite sure it was a newspaper.

Mr. Crafard.

I am pretty sure it was.

Mr. Hubert.

That gave you the first information.

Mr. Crafard.

I still think that--I'm almost positive I got mixed up on my routes in Oklahoma City somewhere, or just out of Oklahoma City.

Mr. Hubert.

We will try to straighten out that route business a little later. You are quite clear that you arrived at Clare, Mich., about 9 o'clock?

Mr. Crafard.

That is right.

Mr. Hubert.

Was that your destination from the start?

Mr. Crafard.

My main destination was about Kalkaska, Mich.

Mr. Hubert.

How far is that from Clare?

Mr. Crafard.

It is about 3 hours running.

Mr. Hubert.

Where did you stop on the night of the 25th, about 9 o'clock, at Clare?

Mr. Crafard.

I stayed at my counsin's at Clare.

Mr. Hubert.

What is your cousin's name?

Mr. Crafard.

Clifford Roberts.

Mr. Hubert.

Do you remember the address?

Mr. Crafard.

307 East Seventh Street.

Mr. Hubert.

Were they expecting you?

Mr. Crafard.

No.

Mr. Hubert.

How long since you last saw them?

Mr. Crafard.

At the time it had been, I think it had been, several years since I saw him at that time.

Mr. Hubert.

How did you know they were there?

Mr. Crafard.

They wrote to my folks while I was living in Dallas, Oreg.

Mr. Hubert.

Was it-----

Mr. Crafard.

Wait a minute; excuse me. I saw him before I went to work, before I went to work with the carnival. My sister told me where they was living at there.

Mr. Hubert.

Did you intend to stop with him that night or just to visit?

Mr. Crafard.

Well, I figured when I got in there at that time of night, I knew what the road to Kalkaska was---it was pretty rough overnight, so I figured I would stop. I would be perfectly welcome.

Mr. Hubert.

Were you?

Mr. Crafard.

Yes.

Mr. Hubert.

Did they recognize you?

Mr. Crafard.

Yes.

Mr. Hubert.

Did you talk to them about the Ruby matter?

Mr. Crafard.

Yes. We talked quite a bit of it that night.