Mr. Hubert.

Let's back off from there, then. Did you spend any time in Mount Pleasant before leaving for Clare?

Mr. Crafard.

No.

Mr. Hubert.

So that you must have left Clare about 7:30.

Mr. Crafard.

I got into Clare about----

Mr. Hubert.

I mean left Mount Pleasant about 7:30, right?

Mr. Crafard.

No; I left Clare Mount Pleasant about 8 or 8:30. It was about 9 o'clock when I got into Clare.

Mr. Hubert.

Did you start on your way to Clare immediately after this man left you off at Mount Pleasant?

Mr. Crafard.

Yes.

Mr. Hubert.

And had you run directly through without stopping from the time the man picked you up and dropped you off in Mount Pleasant?

Mr. Crafard.

That is right, 15 miles.

Mr. Hubert.

15 miles? No; I am talking about the run from----

Mr. Crafard.

From Mount Pleasant to Clare.

Mr. Hubert.

No; I'm talking about the run to Mount Pleasant.

Mr. Griffin.

From Lansing to Mount Pleasant.

Mr. Hubert.

A point outside of Lansing to Mount Pleasant. That is about a 4-hour run, you say.

Mr. Crafard.

At the most, from Lansing to Clare.

Mr. Hubert.

That last long hitch was about a 4-hour hitch?

Mr. Crafard.

No; the last long ride was maybe 2 1/2 hours.

Mr. Hubert.

2 1/2 hours?

Mr. Crafard.

Or 3 hours.

Mr. Hubert.

And that was the man who brought you into Mount Pleasant?

Mr. Crafard.

Mount Pleasant.

Mr. Hubert.

Therefore, if you got to Mount Pleasant about 8, he must have picked you up about 5 in the afternoon.

Mr. Crafard.

It must have been.

Mr. Hubert.

Then there is some mistake in timing of about 12 hours.

Mr. Crafard.

That is what I was saying. I've lost some time there.

Mr. Hubert.

Perhaps it needs a lithe clarifying. Let me touch on another point.

Mr. Crafard.

It Seems to me I got mixed up on my routes going out Oklahoma City.

Mr. Hubert.

Think about it a moment and let me touch upon something else before we go back to it. I think you said that you heard, that Ruby had done this on the morning of the 25th.

Mr. Crafard.

That is right,

Mr. Hubert.

Now, could you tell us how you heard it? Did you hear it b newspaper, radio, television, or what?

Mr. Crafard.

I'm not sure whether it was over the radio or whether it in the newspaper.

Mr. Hubert.

Now, that must have made a terrific impact on you, because, after all, that was your boss.

Mr. Crafard.

Yes.

Mr. Hubert.

So I suggest that if you will just put your mind to it, you can tell us pretty well how it was and where it was.

Was it in a restaurant or automobile?

Mr. Crafard.

I think I saw it in the newspaper, saw something about Oswald and then the assassination or something like that, and then I read the rest of it.

Mr. Hubert.

You bought a newspaper?

Mr. Crafard.

I think so. I must have.

Mr. Hubert.

Didn't you keep it?

Mr. Crafard.

No; I don't believe so because I didn't have one with me when I got into Clare.

Mr. Hubert.

And it was morning?

Mr. Crafard.

Yes; it must have been. It was about 8 in the morning.

Mr. Hubert.

8 in the morning?

Mr. Crafard.

About that, somewhere.

Mr. Hubert.

Were you with anybody, do you know?