Mr. Crafard.

into Clare, because I went over to my cousin's house in Clare. I remember that.

Mr. Hubert.

It was before dark and before dawn when you picked up the driver somewhere approximately 6 miles on the other side of Lansing who took you into Mount Pleasant. Now, how long did you ride with him, and how far is it between the two?

Mr. Crafard.

That is what I mean. I have lost some time earlier somewhere, because it is not that long a ride. I could have made it from Lansing to Clare and back again during the day.

Mr. Hubert.

Larry, we want to get it straight.

Mr. Crafard.

That is what I am trying to do, myself.

Mr. Hubert.

If you want to figure out any place where you have made any mistake about the time----

Mr. Crafard.

That is what I was trying to do.

Mr. Hubert.

We can start all over again. It seemed to fit as I went along, but I wasn't aware of the distances.

Mr. Griffin.

Let me ask him this question: I understand you said that you walked through Lansing.

Mr. Crafard.

Yes.

Mr. Griffin.

How long did it take you to walk through Lansing?

Mr. Crafard.

About an hour, hour and a half, something like that.

Mr. Griffin.

And at that time the cars were not running, the transit, the public transportation was not running, or were you out of money at that time?

Mr. Crafard.

I still had money I have to eat on.

Mr. Griffin.

Lansing is how far from Clare?

Mr. Crafard.

Lansing isn't over, I don't believe it is over 225 miles from Clare to Lansing.

Mr. Hubert.

It may be that you are making a mistake, Larry. Let's see if we can't refresh your memory from the time you got that last long hitch that took you to Mount Pleasant because you remember getting to Mount Pleasant at night, about 8:30.

Mr. Crafard.

Yes.

Mr. Hubert.

And that, you say, is a run of what--about 5 hours, 6 hours?

Mr. Crafard.

I don't believe it would take that long.

Mr. Hubert.

So if you got there at about 8:30 at night, then either you didn't get any hitches for a long period of time, or else something else happened.

Mr. Crafard.

I'm just trying to----

Mr. Hubert.

Because you told us, and if it is not so, why we want you to correct it. Everybody can make mistakes.

Mr. Crafard.

That is what I was trying to do.

Mr. Hubert.

You said that you picked up this ride at a point 60 miles outside of Lansing and into Mount Pleasant prior to dawn on the 25th. Now, maybe that is wrong. Maybe you got that ride late in the day. Let's put it this way. Was that a continuous fide straight on?

Mr. Crafard.

It carried me straight on through to Mount Pleasant.

Mr. Hubert.

Did you stop at all?

Mr. Crafard.

Not that I can recall. It isn't that long a run across there.

Mr. Hubert.

Did you stop for lunch or anything of that sort?

Mr. Crafard.

I don't believe so.

Mr. Hubert.

And it is about a 6-hour run?

Mr. Crafard.

No; I don't believe it is that long a run across there.

Mr. Hubert.

If you got there at 8:30 at night, and if you are firm about that----

Mr. Crafard.

I'm positive it was 8:30 or 9 o'clock when I got into Clare.

Mr. Hubert.

I am talking about Mount Pleasant. You had no difficulty getting from Mount Pleasant to Clare, did you?

Mr. Crafard.

No.

Mr. Hubert.

WoUld you say an hour would suffice for that?

Mr. Crafard.

Plenty, plenty of time.

Mr. Hubert.

You got there between 8:30 and 9, that is into Clare, right?

Mr. Crafard.

Yes.