Mr. Hubert.

How far out of Lansing? If you don't remember the miles, you might tell us about how long before he dropped you off.

Mr. Crafard.

I don't know that, either.

Mr. Hubert.

You don't know?

Mr. Crafard.

It must have been 8 or 4 hours. Probably about halfway between Chicago and Lansing.

Mr. Hubert.

Do you think you were with him about 8 hours, then?

Mr. Crafard.

I think so; I'm not sure.

Mr. Hubert.

And he picked you up about dark?

Mr. Crafard.

Yes; that is about a 400- or 500-mile ride.

Mr. Hubert.

He picked you up about dark in Chicago?

Mr. Crafard.

Just about toward dark.
Mr.HUBERT. Five in the afternoon?
Mr.CRAFARD. It must have been 5 or 5:30.

Mr. Hubert.

So it was something like midnight or shortly after when you got to Lansing?

Mr. Crafard.

Yes.

Mr. Hubert.

And you say about halfway between; that is when you had lunch or supper?

Mr. Crafard.

That is right.

Mr. Hubert.

Or about 8 o'clock, do you think; 9 o'clock?

Mr. Crafard.

It must have been about 8--8 or 8:30--something like that.

Mr. Hubert.

When did you first hear that Oswald had been shot?

Mr. Crafard.

I had heard that Oswald had been shot Sunday evening.

Mr. Hubert.

Where?

Mr. Crafard.

It must have been while I was getting through Chicago.

Mr. Hubert.

Where did you hear that?

Mr. Crafard.

Over the radio.

Mr. Hubert.

What radio?

Mr. Crafard.

The car radio.

Mr. Hubert.

Did you know that Ruby had done it?

Mr. Crafard.

No; I didn't find out who had done it until the following Monday, the following morning, Monday.

Mr. Hubert.

Where did you find that out?

Mr. Crafard.

I heard that over the radio.

Mr. Hubert.

As a matter of fact, Larry, I suppose all of those cars you were in had radios, didn't they?

Mr. Crafard.

A lot of people don't listen to the radio when they are riding like that. That was the first I'd heard of it-- -was Sunday evening, the first I heard Oswald had been shot.

Mr. Hubert.

Sunday afternoon, wasn't it?

Mr. Crafard.

How is that?

Mr. Hubert.

You said it was while you were working your way through Chicago.

Mr. Crafard.

Yes.

Mr. Hubert.

Which took you two or three different cars; about 2 hours or so?

Mr. Crafard.

Yes.

Mr. Hubert.

It was in one of those that you heard it?

Mr. Crafard.

Yes.

Mr. Hubert.

There was no announcement that Ruby had done it?

Mr. Crafard.

I don't believe so, because I didn't know Ruby had done it until Monday morning.

Mr. Hubert.

How did you find that out?

Mr. Crafard.

I heard that over the news.

Mr. Hubert.

In a car?

Mr. Crafard.

Yes.

Mr. Hubert.

During the night when you were driving from Chicago to Lansing, during the period from 5 in the afternoon to about midnight, didn't you hear any radio announcements about any of this matter?

Mr. Crafard.

No.

Mr. Hubert.

Did that car have a radio in it?

Mr. Crafard.

I believe so.