Mr. Hubert.

You mean abnormal sex?

Mr. Crafard.

Yes.

Mr. Hubert.

So what he objected to were jokes that had to do with abnormal sex, is that correct?

Mr. Crafard.

Well, there was, I think on one or two occasions there was, the M.C. told jokes of an abnormal sex, but there was things that were real vulgar jokes where he was cussing a lot or something in a joke he didn't care for too much. He don't like the foul language used in the club very much.

Mr. Griffin.

How about--these comedians must have told sexual jokes, didn't they?

Mr. Crafard.

Oh, yes; that is one of the things that put a comedian over in that kind of a club; they are there to sell sex, and if they don't tell a sexual joke the comedian is nothing.

Mr. Griffin.

How do you distinguish for us between the kind of sexual jokes that Jack would be upset about and those he accepted?

Mr. Crafard.

[Deleted.]

Mr. Hubert.

Is that the type of joke that Ruby objected to?

Mr. Crafard.

That type of joke would be acceptable because it leaves a person to figure out in his own mind, what the deal is.

Mr. Griffin.

What kind would be objectionable?

Mr. Crafard.

[Deleted.]

Mr. Hubert.

That would be an objectionable joke?

Mr. Crafard.

Yes; because there would be no question in anybody's mind.

Mr. Hubert.

Is that a specific example, or one that you were using?

Mr. Crafard.

An example; the joke was not told in the club.

Mr. Hubert.

From what you have told us as a generalization it would seem to be this, that any joke that left it to the imagination of the listener would be all right with Jack, but if it w,as specific he objected to it.

Mr. Crafard.

That is right. It was pretty well acceptable all over the country that way. You take even with a party joke. If a party joke leaves in a person's mind in most places, leaves it to a person to imagine it themselves, it is acceptable. But if there isn't any doubt it doesn't make it acceptable in a mixed party.

Mr. Griffin.

Larry, did you learn anything that would indicate whether Jack's attitude about these jokes was based on any concern about what the local law-enforcement people would feel about having such jokes told in his club?

Mr. Crafard.

No; I don't--I can't think of anything that would make me feel that way.

Mr. Hubert.

Was it your impression of his being perturbed, as the way you put it, was sincere or possibly just part of the act?

Mr. Crafard.

It seemed pretty sincere to me.

Mr. Hubert.

He never did tell you, man to man, that he objected to these?

Mr. Crafard.

No.

Mr. Griffin.

Did Jack tell any jokes himself?

Mr. Crafard.

I don't recall of any. I think a couple of times he got on the stage and tried to M.C. and, fell sort of flat.

Mr. Griffin.

How about privately; was Jack the kind of person who would joke and tell jokes?

Mr. Crafard.

He never did that I know of.

Mr. Griffin.

Was Jack the kind of person who would sit around with the comedians and talk with them in between acts and so forth?

Mr. Crafard.

No; Jack was the kind that the only time he would say anything to the comedians was if he done something he didn't like, and if Jack wanted the comedian to do something he would say something to him.

Mr. Hubert.

Did you ever notice any traits of physical violence in Ruby?

Mr. Crafard.

The one time I noticed any traits of physical violence at all, there was a guy came to the club who was pretty well polluted, and I think Ralph Paul was sitting right near the door, and he started giving the doorman a bad time.

Mr. Hubert.

Who started----

Mr. Crafard.

This drunk fellow did.