Mr. Hubert.

So, a man who is going through those doors leading from the municipal building to the alleyway uses the key to open the door to get out into the alleyway. Now, when he leaves and goes down the alleyway and has taken these keys with him, is that door then open so that somebody can come in without a key or do you need a key to get back in again?

Mr. Servance.

Well, now, if--usually, if the fellow's got the key, he usually locks it when he goes out.

Mr. Hubert.

Now, if he locks it back when he got--when he goes out but he didn't lock it again----

Mr. Servance.

You don't need no key.

Mr. Hubert.

The door is open?

Mr. Servance.

You don't need a key.

Mr. Hubert.

Do you know from your own knowledge whether Riggs and Fuqua went through that alley door that morning?

Mr. Servance.

I couldn't say. I mean, I don't--I mean I don't recall that. There is a possibility that they could have, but I don't recall it.

Mr. Hubert.

But you don't know from your own knowledge?

Mr. Servance.

After the excitement came and hollering of the elevators--I mean the sirens going we were watching the armored car being backed to the entrance of that--ears coming out of there from the basement and if they did, I didn't know it, I mean, I can't recall it. There is a possibility, but actually to say, I couldn't say it.

Mr. Hubert.

They were in uniforms, too?

Mr. Servance.

Yes, sir; they were in uniforms and working around there. In fact, Riggs was in both of the buildings, you know. He was a porter there that day for certain, and he had access of those things. What he did--I mean, I only seen him there, and he disappeared, I didn't notice it.

Mr. Hubert.

There is one other way you can go down from the municipal building to the basement, and that is through the fire escape, that is to say, the door to the main floor of the municipal building is not locked, and you can get to the staircase that way, can't you?

Mr. Servance.

Yes, sir.

Mr. Hubert.

And the door at the bottom of the stairway, which is the entrance of the basement is always open so that you can get into the basement?

Mr. Servance.

Not the weekends. You have to--you can come out, but you can't go in.

Mr. Hubert.

That's what I mean. You can go in from the municipal building. You can go through the fire escape doors?

Mr. Servance.

That's right.

Mr. Hubert.

They are not locked?

Mr. Servance.

They are locked; yes.

Mr. Hubert.

They are locked on Sundays?

Mr. Servance.

Locked on Sundays, but, you see, you can come out, you have a big bar that you can mash and come out of but you lock it and you can't go in.

Mr. Hubert.

Am I right in saying then that from the municipal floor, first floor of the municipal building----

Mr. Servance.

That's right.

Mr. Hubert.

You cannot go into the staircase?

Mr. Servance.

Not during the weekend. They keep it locked, or either at night.

Mr. Hubert.

Always locked?

Mr. Servance.

Always locked, but you can always come out of there.

Mr. Hubert.

Yes; in other words, if you are in the staircase itself, you can come out?

Mr. Servance.

Come out, that's right.

Mr. Hubert.

But, a man on the first floor of the municipal building can't go from the first floor to the basement by use of that staircase, can he?

Mr. Servance.

Yes; inside he can.

Mr. Hubert.

No; once they get inside the staircase, yes, but suppose he is standing on--in the lobby on the first floor, can he get through those fire escape doors and get into the staircase and then go down and out into the basement?

Mr. Servance.

Well, now, let me kind of clear this. You see, you have three