Mr. Hubert.

You tried on this morning to get--to make sure the elevators were cut off?

Mr. Servance.

Their power is cut off. They are cut off. You have to go up on the penthouse on top and cut them off.

Mr. Hubert.

They are cut off every night?

Mr. Servance.

And on weekends. Weekends; yes, sir.

Mr. Hubert.

What other ways are there to get into the municipal building from the first floor? We have Commerce Street and Main Street.

Mr. Servance.

They have the rear exit there.

Mr. Hubert.

Tell us about that?

Mr. Servance.

Well, you see, the service elevator has the double doors, you open both of those doors there and go out the service elevator, you can go out now, to the service elevator; we do have a way that will unlock--well, in fact, have a chain of keys there and that if anyone anybody that is working on any of those floors during the weekends, well, they can get those keys and go in there and out the back, if they want.

Mr. Hubert.

Now, that back do.or to the building, that leads to what?

Mr. Servance.

Oh, it leads to the alley.

Mr. Hubert.

Leads to the alley? Is there a key in the elevator that opens the back door?

Mr. Servance.

They were open; that's right.

Mr. Hubert.

Are you familiar with how that back door works?

Mr. Servance.

Yes, sir.

Mr. Hubert.

Can the back door be opened at any time without the key?

Mr. Servance.

No, sir.

Mr. Hubert.

In there any button that you can push so you don't need a key?

Mr. Servance.

No, sir.

Mr. Hubert.

In other words, to go to that door, once it is closed, now, coming from either way, from inside the building or from outside the building, you have to have a key to make that door operate?

Mr. Servance.

Yes, sir; you really do. No, no, now, you can push shut, you can snap the door and remain open.

Mr. Hubert.

If you want that door to stay open you've got to prop it open. Once the door is closed you need a key no matter which way you are coming?

Mr. Servance.

It is a door you have to lock, you know, you don't--it has got a catch there, but you have to lock it, you know, it is not a turn--you know.

Mr. Hubert.

Well, you mean that you can go through that door and then when it closes you--it is not locked unless you turn it?

Mr. Servance.

Well, that's right. See, we can trip it off, you have got a double lock, you understand. You know the doors got a night latch like--you know, but in order to lock that door it has got another lock in there that we turn.

Mr. Hubert.

Let me put it to you this way: Suppose a man uses the key to get through the door from the outside of the building, now, the door closes shut automatically, doesn't it?

Mr. Servance.

Yes, sir.

Mr. Hubert.

Does it lock so that you need the key to get back inside, or not?

Mr. Servance.

No, sir.

Mr. Hubert.

It does not lock?

Mr. Servance.

It does not lock. In order to lock it from the alleyway side so that nobody can come in you have got to turn it. Put the key and turn.

Mr. Hubert.

Otherwise the door is open?

Mr. Servance.

That's right, sir.

Mr. Hubert.

Now, let's go through that again, because it is very important and I want to get it for sure. That door operates only with a key, that is to say, from the inside. You can't Just use the door without a key from the inside?

Mr. Servance.

Let's put it this way. Once you lock the door you have to have a key to unlock it. Now, see, you shut that door, it catches, but it is not locked. See what I mean? But in order for that door to be locked we have to put a key in there and turn that lock and let that come out and go into that socket, you see?