Mr. Hubert.

And the back one is the one that opens up into a little hallway that leads to an alleyway?

Mr. Mckinzie.

Yes, sir; that's right.

Mr. Hubert.

Does that back door of the elevator also open on other floors?

Mr. Mckinzie.

On the second floor of the building.
Mr. HUBERT, Now, when you left the elevator what was the position of both doors?

Mr. Mckinzie.

Front was open facing the municipal building. The back was closed.

Mr. Hubert.

It never was open at all?

Mr. Mckinzie.

No, sir; never was open.

Mr. Hubert.

Do you recall whether the back of the elevator was open any time during the morning of November 24th, until the shooting?

Mr. Mckinzie.

I am sure that I wouldn't be making no mistake if I said it was open several times, because we had some porters down there working that brings trash from the jail department, and I always let them out that door, and they go out the back, and that is where they keep all their trash and the garbage and so forth, and I imagine about 8 or 8:30, that they were open, because
that is about the time they carries the trash and stuff out.

Mr. Hubert.

So that the back

Mr. Mckinzie.

There would be one porter probably went out maybe one or two trips.

Mr. Hubert.

How would he get out through that back door leading onto the alleyway? Is that an open door?

Mr. Mckinzie.

It is locked.

Mr. Hubert.

Who has the key?

Mr. Mckinzie.

They gives them a key to go out that door to carry the trash, and they bring the key back and carry them back down to the basement.

Mr. Hubert.

They don't have a key personally; the key is in the elevator on a ring, is that right?

Mr. Mckinzie.

That's right.

Mr. Hubert.

And they have to get that key from the elevator operator?

Mr. Mckinzie.

That's right.

Mr. Hubert.

Now, did you give the key to anybody that day, do you remember?

Mr. Mckinzie.

Well, I'm sure that I give it to--I don't know which porter was working, just exactly. I think Alfreadia Riggs, or some of them, but I am sure I give them the key to unlock the back door to carry his trash out.

Mr. Hubert.

Does that back door have a latch on it so that you can push it and it will stay open?

Mr. Mckinzie.

No, sir.

Mr. Hubert.

That door requires a key all the time, either way?

Mr. Mckinzie.

That's right.

Mr. Hubert.

When they go out, how do they get back in?

Mr. Mckinzie.

They got to leave it open, or either carry the key to come back in.

Mr. Hubert.

How did they leave it open?

Mr. Mckinzie.

They just walk out on the little ramp. The garbage cans is sitting right by the building, and they just, oh, about 4 feet from the door is about all, or 5 feet from the door is all they have to walk. They mostly have that trash in a sack, and just throw it in the corner and right back in the building.

Mr. Hubert.

All right; now, after you had been told not to bring the elevator down to the basement any more, did you follow those orders?

Mr. Mckinzie.

Yes, sir.

Mr. Hubert.

And you never brought the elevator down at all any more?

Mr. Mckinzie.

No, sir; not until--well, I know it was 11:30, probably 12 o'clock.

Mr. Hubert.

It was after the shooting?

Mr. Mckinzie.

Yes, sir; it was after the shooting.

Mr. Hubert.

And you want to say now that that elevator never came down to the bottom floor all the time?

Mr. Mckinzie.

No, sir; it didn't.