Mr. Hubert.

And that is true of the gates, small gates on the second and third floor, also?

Mr. Mckinzie.

First, second and third. That is the only--there is three of them, three floors, first, second and third.

Mr. Hubert.

Now, is it possible to get into the first floor of the municipal building from the basement by using a--the staircase, the fire escape, the fire escape staircase?

Mr. Mckinzie.

It is kept locked. They do have a door there.

Mr. Hubert.

There is a double door.

Mr. Mckinzie.

No, sir; they have just an ordinary door made like that one there that you go up the stair steps from the basement, but it is locked. It is--well, it is locked at nights, too.

Mr. Hubert.

It iS locked. Which side?

Mr. Mckinzie.

From the it would be locked from the outside.

Mr. Hubert.

From the basement side?

Mr. Mckinzie.

That's right. You can come out it. You can come down and come out it, but you can't go in it from the basement without a key.

Mr. Hubert.

Now, if a person was on the first floor, could he get to the basement by using the fire escape stairs?

Mr. Mckinzie.

Yes, sir.

Mr. Hubert.

In other words, the fire escape staircase doors on the first floor of the municipal building are not locked?

Mr. Mckinzie.

No, sir.

Mr. Hubert.

So, you can get into that fire escape staircase, as it were, and go one flight down and----

Mr. Mckinzie.

That's right.

Mr. Hubert.

And you can open the door down there, that is not locked?

Mr. Mckinzie.

It is locked, but you can open it from the inside.

Mr. Hubert.

Okay, open from the staircase side, so, if you got into the staircase, you could get into the basement, is that right?

Mr. Mckinzie.

Yes, sir; that's right.

Mr. Hubert.

Now, on the 24th, which was on a Sunday, the Sunday after President Kennedy was killed, were you on duty that day?

Mr. Mckinzie.

Yes, sir; I was.

Mr. Hubert.

What time did you come on duty?

Mr. Mckinzie.

7 o'clock, Sunday morning.

Mr. Hubert.

What time did you leave?

Mr. Mckinzie.

3 in the afternoon.

Mr. Hubert.

Now, what was your particular duty that day?

Mr. Mckinzie.

I was running the freight elevator.

Mr. Hubert.

Did you operate the elevator all day?

Mr. Mckinzie.

Yes, sir.

Mr. Hubert.

Did you leave it at any time?

Mr. Mckinzie.

Yes, sir.

Mr. Hubert.

When?

Mr. Mckinzie.

Around 10 o'clock is when I got orders to carry it to the first floor and cut it off and not bring any passengers down to the basement until I got further permission from the police department, and I was off of it then, I was still on the first floor, I just wasn't operating it.

Mr. Hubert.

Did you leave the elevator itself?

Mr. Mckinzie.

Sir?

Mr. Hubert.

Did you leave the elevator itself and walk some place else?

Mr. Mckinzie.

Just down the hallway.

Mr. Hubert.

Were the doors of the elevator open then?

Mr. Mckinzie.

It was open, but it was cut off. I had it automatic, and I had it cut off with the key. Couldn't nobody----

Mr. Hubert.

Now, that really has two doors in it, doesn't it?

Mr. Mckinzie.

Back and front.

Mr. Hubert.

That is the front one, I suppose, you designate as the one that opens up into the municipal building?

Mr. Mckinzie.

That's right.