Mr. Hubert.

You are a city employee?

Mr. Mckinzie.

Yes, sir.

Mr. Hubert.

How long have you been a city hail employee, sir?

Mr. Mckinzie.

Exact--this is March and--Oh, I'd say 6 years and 6 months. That would be just about it, correct.

Mr. Hubert.

What was your occupation before that?

Mr. Mckinzie.

Well, I did construction work mostly.

Mr. Hubeat.

Carpenter?

Mr. Mckinzie.

Carpenter's helper.

Mr. Hubert.

Carpenter's helper?

Mr. Mckinzie.

Yes, sir.

Mr. Hubert.

Have you been living in the Dallas area all your life?

Mr. Mckenzie.

No, sir.

Mr. Hubert.

Where did you live before coming to Dallas?

Mr. Mckinzie.

I was raised at East Texas, Palestine, Anderson County.

Mr. Hubert.

Are you married?

Mr. Mckinzie.

Yes, sir.

Mr. Hubert.

Children?

Mr. Mckinzie.

Five.

Mr. Hubert.

All grown.

Mr. Mckinzie.

All grown.

Mr. Hubert.

What is your particular job with the Dallas Public Works Department?

Mr. Mckinzie.

General porter work. I keep the first floor on the public works department and water department and building permit department and general split shift. I work, oh, every day, part-time.

Mr. Hubert.

Now, when you say general porter in the water works department, that is the first floor of the municipal building?

Mr. Mckinzie.

Yes; that's right.

Mr. Hubert.

Now, I would like you to describe how you can get into the first floor of the municipal building. All possible ways to get in the first floor?

Mr. Mckinzie.

Well, you have got--you have got a door on Main Street that you can come in. You have got a door on Commerce Street that you can come in. Also, have a door on the alley coming from the Western Union that you can come in, and if somebody lets you in, well, I mean, you know it is open to the public through the week, but weekends it is not. In other words, none of the doors open to the public on weekends. Just working days only.

Mr. Hubert.

Those doors are locked on weekends, that is, Friday night?

Mr. Mckinzie.

That's right. In other words, after 6:30 in the afternoon all doors are locked and all elevators are canceled but one, which that is what they call the freight elevator. ,It runs from the basement all the way to the fifth floor, and that is where everybody is supposed to go in and out, through the building at night and on weekends, Saturdays and Sundays and holidays, unless it is maintenance men, they have their own keys.

Mr. Hubert.

Now, is there any passageway between the building known as the jail building, or the police department building and the municipal building?

Mr. Mckinzie.

First floor, second floor and third floor.

Mr. Hubert.

And what?

Mr. Mckinzie.

In other words, they have gates there that they close after closing time and lock.

Mr. Hubert.

Sort of a gate made of----

Mr. Mckinzie.

Metal.

Mr. Hubert.

Metal across metal, sort of like an accordion.

Mr. Mckinzie.

That's right.

Mr. Hubert.

And it locks?

Mr. Mckinzie.

They lock that after closing time. Stay locked until 6:30, 7 the next morning.

Mr. Hubert.

And on weekends?

Mr. Mckinzie.

No; on weekends it would be locked permanently.

Mr. Hubert.

From 6:30 Friday, in the afternoon until about 7 o'clock Monday morning?

Mr. Mckinzie.

Right.