Mr. Phenix.

To my right--a little bit.

Mr. Hubert.

Then, we mark a line from 9 to 10, with point 10 being immediately to the right of point 6 where you were standing?

Mr. Phenix.

Yes.

Mr. Hubert.

Then, you say there were policemen along in that line too?

Mr. Phenix.

Yes; police and press.

Mr. Hubert.

Now, take it from there.

Mr. Phenix.

Well, from there I waited until--I believe it was a United Press International movie photographer, Isidore, or something, everybody called him Izzie I don't know his last name, came running down from the swinging doors, I think he was the one, and said, "He's coming," meaning Oswald, so we all got ready, and the camera has an eyepiece----

Mr. Hubert.

Your camera?

Mr. Phenix.

Right; that operates through a prism that looks directly through the lens, so I had to have my eyes stuck against the eyepiece in order to see through it. So, from then on, all I saw was Oswald coming down the hallway there, and I didn't actually--I wasn't aware of seeing Ruby step out of the crowd--I knew something had happened and the shot--at the shot somebody came roaring in from my left and almost knocked me down. The unipod was braced on the curb and it slipped down to the main level of the ramp and almost fell, and looking through the eyepiece and over the eyepiece, too, just shooting out of habit really, the camera was running all the time I followed the action of the policeman wrestling with Ruby--it just happened that they moved to my right.

Mr. Hubert.

Your film, as a matter of fact, is that famous film that catches Ruby moving forward and the wrestling?

Mr. Phenix.

Right; I just saw it once and we were so busy, but I think it was the one where Ruby's hat was in the corner of the opening frame and he steps out.

Mr. Hubert.

You have seen it since, haven't you?

Mr. Phenix.

Oh, yes.

Mr. Hubert.

Did you know Ruby?

Mr. Phenix.

No.

Mr. Hubert.

Had you observed him in the crowd prior to these events?

Mr. Phenix.

I can't remember it. I heard someone say in the crowd after they took Ruby and after Oswald left in the ambulance that it was Jack Ruby, and the name didn't mean a thing to me.

Mr. Hubert.

Did you hear anybody running down the ramp just before the shooting, running down or possibly walking down?

Mr. Phenix.

No, I think if he had been running I would have heard him because the sound just echoes in that basement.
I saw some film, and I'm sure you've seen it too, some of the film that showed Ruby positioned down there, and he looks back where you catch almost a full shot of his face before Oswald comes down, and that anyway--it just looks like he was there for a while.

Mr. Hubert.

Did you hear Ruby say anything?

Mr. Phenix.

No; maybe in the excitement I heard him, but I don't remember hearing this famous quotation about "Jack, you S. O. B."

Mr. Hubert.

You didn't hear anybody; hear anything, including Ruby--any-thing distinguishable that you now remember?

Mr. Phenix.

The only one I can remember is Bob Huffaker, who is the mike man for our live camera, saying over and over that "He's been shot," and he was calling him "Lee Harold Oswald." I don't know why--and then just in general--a few words.

Mr. Hubert.

You heard him saying, "He's been shot, he's been shot, he's been shot," a number of times?

Mr. Phenix.

Yes, and the policemen telling everybody to stand back.

Mr. Hubert.

What about the security precautions that were in existence, and would you comment about those as far as you observed them?

Mr. Phenix.

Well, as we drove in there were several officers down there, but nobody made any effort, you know, to talk to us as we drove in--we were in