Mr. Hubert.

Captain JONES. Well, now, actually, that line would extend all the way up here at that time. I meant to keep them back on those two--and in order

Mr. Hubert.

Am I correct in what your suggestion was that the news media should be kept north of the line marked A and B?
Captain JONES. That's right.

Mr. Hubert.

And east of the line which runs "B to C," the point "C"?
Captain JONES. I didn't spell it out in those details, but that is the general idea, yes, sir.

Mr. Hubert.

"B" being the top of the Commerce Street ramp?
Captain JONES. For this reason, that we would have only two sides to watch. The rest of it would be more or less brick wall, and he agreed to that. The officers were stationed previously by other people along these lines, so, I went out there with some of these officers and I don't know how many, and we did get those people back.

Mr. Hubert.

You got them back?
Captain JONES. We got them back fairly well at that time.

Mr. Hubert.

Behind the lines?
Captain JONES. Behind these lines. In fact, there at one time it was completely clear.

Mr. Hubert.

That would have been how long before Oswald came down?
Captain JONES. There again, I couldn't say. It was a matter of a few minutes.

Mr. Hubert.

Can you tell me how many people were in the area that I am marking with a pen, "Area A"?
Captain JONES. I cannot tell you.

Mr. Hubert.

Which is to say, the area north of the line "A", which you recently drew?
Captain JONES. Mr. Hubert, that would be truly a guess on my part along with knowledge obtained later and watching these TV films. Unconsciously, I would have to use that, for I don't have any idea on it.

Mr. Hubert.

Were they standing shoulder to shoulder across the ramp?
Captain JONES. It wasn't when we first pushed them back there, it was possibly six or eight people, and possibly a few more than that including officers. I didn't stop to--told the officers, "Get them back," "get them back."

. Mr. HUBERT. Now, I am talking about an area called "B", can you give me any comment as to how many people roughly were in there?
Captain JONES. I couldn't guess. A few minutes later I can tell you there was quite a few people there, but

Mr. Hubert.

We'll get to there. Suppose we get to that. Now then, at the time Oswald was brought down, can you tell me how many people, roughly, were in Area "A" and Area "B"?
Captain JONES. No, sir; I find myself with figures there that--that I do not know whether they are right or not.

Mr. Hubert.

All right.
Captain JONES. What I would want to say, that I did see several people, and I was up there personally, and I don't know exactly who they were, but I was attempting to push them back at that time. So, we can get to that any minute, but as far as giving you a figure or definite number or something, I couldn't do it with any degree of accuracy.

Mr. Hubert.

All right, sir. Do you know of your own knowledge what procedures were being used for checking people in that whole downstairs or basement area, including the ramp and so forth?
Captain JONES. I know only one instance of---somewhere on the way down there that morning, whether it was up on the third floor or whether--I believe it was off of the elevator, just coming off of the elevator I was asked for an identification.

Mr. Hubert.

You were in civilian clothes ?
Captain JONES. I was in civilian clothes, yes, sir. I was asked, and that is the only time. I did not give the instruction. These officers were placed there prior to that, on the outside lines, and I don't know of my own knowledge.

Mr. Hubert.

Well, then, proceed with the chronological sequence.
Captain JONES. The chronological sequence, after getting these people out of the jail office and out of the corridors and driveway to these two points of which