Mr. Clardy.

Yes, sir; might add something a little further, that at no time other than when I walked across to Detective McMillon do I recall being over 3 feet from that corner in any direction.

Mr. Hubert.

When did you first get to that corner, approximately?

Mr. Clardy.

That would have been approximately 11 o'clock, maybe 10:55. It would have been pretty close.

Mr. Hubert.

So, that from the from between 10:55 and 11 o'clock you stayed in the position which is marked on Exhibit 5064, that being the position of B. S. Clardy prior to the shooting. You stayed in that position all within 3 feet of it the whole during the whole time until Oswald was shot, except on one occasion when you said you went over to talk to Detective McMillon ?

Mr. Clardy.

That's right.

Mr. Hubert.

How far did you move, and in what direction did you go ?

Mr. Clardy.

Certainly--well, sir; he was across the aisle on the other side.

Mr. Hubert.

Now, would you mark on the .map approximately the position of McMillon when you walked over to him?

Mr. Clardy.

Approximately--I walked over to him approximately in here [indicating].

Mr. Hubert.

I am marking a circle, now, and I am putting on there, "Position of McMillon when Clardy walked over," right?

Mr. Clardy.

Yes, sir.

Mr. Hubert.

Then, did you go back to your original position?

Mr. Clardy.

Yes, sir.

Mr. Hubert.

I understand you to say that you stayed there except at the moment of the shooting you were about 3 feet in the direction of Commerce Street from that original basic position?

Mr. Clardy.

Yes, sir.

Mr. Hubert.

Can you tell us why you moved 3 feet towards Commerce Street, as you say you did?

Mr. Clardy.

The best of my recollection, as they backed the car out, that there was some of the press tried to come in front of the car, and I had to step to my right to watch them, and I stepped to my right and Captain Fritz had come into my view and stepped down to the right and turned slightly to my right, and approximately at that time, I hadn't seen Oswald myself, but approximately at the time I stepped to my right I saw a blur of fast movement and I tried to turn, and heard the shot.

Mr. Hubert.

Did you recognize Ruby then?

Mr. Clardy.

I had not seen him to recognize him; no, sir. Just all--I was turned, moved to the right, and all I could see was a fast blur of movement.

Mr. Hubert.

At any time during this time that you were standing in your original position as marked on the map, or at any time when you went over to see McMillon, or at any time for that matter, whatsoever, did you see Jack Ruby in the crowd?

Mr. Clardy.

No, sir; I did not; and approximately 2 or 3 minutes before the shooting I had looked over the crowd in the basement. Why, I don't know.

Mr. Hubert.

You did, in fact, look over there?

Mr. Clardy.

I had looked up to the right. Lieutenant Smart, and--I think--1 am not for sure- Chief Batchelor was with him at the armored truck, and I did look on over the crowd on back around. Now, this could have been more than 3 minutes before the shooting occurred.

Mr. Hubert.

Were the conditions such that if Ruby had been standing in that crowd you could have singled him out and seen him?

Mr. Clardy.

As many people as there was in there at the time, sir, he could have very easily been behind somebody where I couldn't have seen him.

Mr. Hubert.

Just how many people were in that area where Ruby apparently was ? I don't mean an accurate count. Of course, you didn't count them..

Mr. Clardy.

In the area where I presume that he come from, 12 to 15, on over. behind the rail there was quite a few people, whether he come across the rail, whether he come down the ramp, like he told us, I don't know.

Mr. Hubert.

But, the Main Street ramp itself going toward Main Street, you figured there were about 15 people?