Yes; the spot where he was when you saw him. Now, look at the mockup first and get your distances.
Lieutenant WIGGINS. I have an idea or just about---

Mr. Hubert.

Would you just mark it there, the spot there were you first saw Ruby ?
Lieutenant WIGGINS. Approximately. I could miss this a foot or 2, you understand that?

Mr. Hubert.

All right.
Lieutenant WIGGINS. All right. Now, your cameras were over here behind the-behind this with the lights, and where I saw him, he was approximately, I'd say, about there .[indicating].

Mr. Hubert.

Now, I am marking this---Lieutenant Wiggins has marked a spot in the basement area. I am putting a circle around that spot, and connecting it with a line, I am writing "Position of Ruby when seen by Wiggins." Is that correct, sir?
Lieutenant WIGGINS. Yes. Now, this spot that I would be that I would say to be to where I first noticed that--the movement that attracted my attention right there.

Mr. Hubert.

All right.
Lieutenant WIGGINS. And by the time that I had time to think and look, it was over, but that is approximately the place.

Mr. Hubert.

All right. You had known Jack Ruby before this, I understand?
Lieutenant WIGGINS. Yes, sir; I have known Jack Ruby for years.

Mr. Hubert.

When did you first recognize him?
Lieutenant WIGGINS. The first time that I recognized him, who it was was after they brought him into the jail office. He was on the floor still covered, or surrounded by the officers is when they picked him up off the floor and stood him on his feet in the jail.

Mr. Hubert.

Did he say anything to you?
Lieutenant WIGGINS. I don't recall him saying anything there.

Mr. Hubert.

Did you ever talk to him afterwards?
Lieutenant WIGGINS. Yes, sir; I talked to you the I talked to him the next morning. I went up to see if he was all right. This was approximately 6:45, the following morning, I went to see that he was all right. I asked him how he was feeling, and he said, "As well as could be expected." And I asked him if he was being treated all right. And he said, "Yes; they are treating me fine."
And I don't recall saying anything else to him at that time.

Mr. Hubert.

Had you--have you spoken to him since ?
Lieutenant WIGGINS. No.

Mr. Hubert.

Do you know who called a doctor?
Lieutenant WIGGINS. Yes, sir; when the shot was fired, as soon as I saw that I could be of no help out there, they had Ruby. They had the man, and they were surrounding---I immediately whirled, came in the office, and when I found one of my officers there, Slack, I told him to call the doctor, that Oswald had been shot.

Mr. Hubert.

Did you then notice what time it was?
Lieutenant WIGGINS. No, sir; I didn't. I don't recall.

Mr. Hubert.

Slack was where?
Lieutenant WIGGINS. He was standing right by the desk inside the jail office.

Mr. Hubert.

So, he put the call
Lieutenant WIGGINS. Yes, sir; he called himself, then let me say this, that after they brought Ruby in, then I turned and came back out the door and after they had brought Ruby and Oswald, after they had gotten him in I checked by telephone myself.

Mr. Hubert.

Who did you speak to then?
Lieutenant WIGGINS. I called one of them in the dispatcher's office, but I don't remember who I checked with.

Mr. Hubert.

Now, I am marking a document purporting to be a letter dated November 27, 1963, addressed to J. E. Curry, chief of police, apparently signed by you, by marking on the right-hand margin these words, "Dallas, Tex., March 24, 1964, and Exhibit 5074. Deposition of W. Wiggins." I am signing my name on the first page, and placing my initials on the lower right-hand corner of the

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