Mr. Jenner.

contacts you had with your mother did you learn or were you advised or did you become aware that there was difficulty with Lee with respect to truancy in attendance at school?

Mr. Pic.

I am not quite there, sir.

Mr. Jenner.

All right. The answer is, I take it, that up to this point of January 1953 you were not aware.

Mr. PIC. That is correct, sir.

Mr. Jenner.

Despite the fact that you had seen your mother from time to time during that period?

Mr. Pic.

That is correct, sir.

Mr. Jenner.

All right, we are at January 1953, when you reenlisted in the Coast Guard.

Mr. Pic.

That is right. So in February 1953, my wife and I were again invited to their apartment. This may or may not have been the same apartment we originally visited. I don't remember, sir. I know it was up in the Bronx. I think it may have been a different apartment. Is that right?

Mr. Jenner.

Yes.

Mr. Pic.

As my wife and I walked in, Lee walked out and my mother informed us that he would probably go to the Bronx Zoo. We had Sunday dinner, and in the course of the conversation my mother informed me that Lee was having a truancy problem and that the school officials had suggested that he might need psychiatric aid to combat his truancy problem.
She informed me that Lee said that he would not see a head shrinker or nut doctor, and she wanted any suggestions or opinions from me as to how to get him to see him, and I told her just take him down there. That is all I could suggest.

Mr. Jenner.

What was her response to that?

Mr. Pic.

Well, Lee was still the boss. If he didn't want to go see the psychiatrist, he wasn't going.

Mr. Jenner.

She had no control over him?

Mr. Pic.

No, sir.

Mr. Jenner.

And you were quite aware of that, were you?

Mr. Pic.

Yes, sir.

Mr. Jenner.

Did you discuss that with her?

Mr. Pic.

No, sir; she discussed it with me. I mean she told me that she couldn't control him and so forth. This I knew.

Mr. Jenner.

Did you get the impression from anything she said to you that this truancy or this lack of control problem had been something that had suddenly arisen or

Mr. Pic.

I think it was gradual, and getting worse and worse as time went by.

Mr. Jenner.

Sergeant, when you were still home and up to the time you enlisted which was in January 1950, had there been any control problems with respect to Lee? In other words, had you noticed this problem developing, any headstrong attitudes on his part? Cudgel your mind and take yourself back.

Mr. Pic.

I would say, sir, that whenever there was a disciplinary problem to be taken care of that it wasn't enforced with Lee by his mother prior to 1950. She always reminded Robert and I that we were the older and we should see to these things that he don't do them and so forth.

Mr. Jenner.

What did you and Robert do about it?

Mr. Pic.

Not much, sir.

Mr. Jenner.

Did you speak to him? You were his older brother. He had the love and affection for you?

Mr. Pic.

Well, sir; what was serious to her probably wasn't serious to a 13- and 15-year old kid or 14-16. There was no big troubles he got into that any kid does.

Mr. Jenner.

What did you notice up until the time you enlisted in January 1950, of Lee's relations with other children in the neighborhood or his schoolmates. What was your overall impression, first?

Mr. Pic.

To my best recollection, sir; there were no other children in the neighborhood of his age group that he played consistently with. I think most of the time he went to play with other children it was a matter of a couple, couple of blocks away or so, with his own age group.