Mr. Pena.

need a lawyer about for this. I just tell you the truth. When I finish with him--you are from Washington. I tell you, Bringuier hates the United States as much as he hates Russia.

Mr. Liebeler.

Bringuier does?

Mr. Pena.

The day Mr. Kennedy put a blockade in Cuba--you remember, about a year and a half, more or less--Mr. Carlos Bringuier was telling me excuse me (obscenity) in Spanish more than a dozen times, and I couldn't stand that. I have never done anything against the United States. I said, "No." Anyway, anything you want to ask me and you can ask Mr. Bringuier is that true or not, and let him and me take a lie detector test to see who is right on it.

Mr. Liebeler.

You say that-you have never done anything against the interests of the United States?

Mr. Pena.

No; I have not ever.

Mr. Liebeler.

Well, I have no reason whatsover not to believe that statement, Mr. Pena.

Mr. Pena.

Okay.

Mr. Liebeler.

Why do you say that Mr. Bringuier hates the United States more than he does Russia?

Mr. Pena.

Because he does as much.

Mr. Liebeler.

As much?

Mr. Pena.

Yes.

Mr. Liebeler.

Why does he dislike the United States? Has he ever told you?

Mr. Pena.

No; but the way he talks, that the United States didn't help to overthrow Castro, and he can go over there and take over.

Mr. Liebeler.

Is that the basis for Mr. Bringuier's bad feeling towards the United States, that we haven't done anything to overcome the Castro regime?

Mr. Pena.

Well, the way he talks to me, he hates the United States as much as he hates Russia. That's what I told you, what he said, more than a dozen times. And if that is not true, let him take a lie detector test and find out whether that is true or not true.

Mr. Liebeler.

Did you tell Mr. Bringuier about having seen Oswald in the bar?

Mr. Pena.

Yes; we was talking about that day. You see, I did like very, very much Mr. Kennedy.

Mr. Liebeler.

You did or did not?

Mr. Pena.

I did. Very, very much. So I was hurt when he got killed. So when I saw the man there I saw the man--so I went around and told most of my customers that I saw Oswald came to my place.

Mr. Liebeler.

When you talked to the FBI on June 9, 1964, you told them, did you not, that you had never told anybody that Oswald had been in the bar?

Mr. Pena.

That I never told anybody?

Mr. Liebeler.

Yes.

Mr. Pena.

That's not true.

Mr. Liebeler.

Didn't you tell that to the FBI?

Mr. Pena.

I don't think that's so. That I never told anybody?

Mr. Liebeler.

Yes.

Mr. Pena.

I didn't told anybody before?

Mr. Liebeler.

I have a report before me, Mr. Pena, of an interview of you in the presence of your attorney, Mr. Tamberella, which was made by Mr. De Brueys and Mr. Wall. That was in the FBI office on June 9, and on page 2 of this particular report, which is page 14 of the larger report, it says, and I quote: "Orest Pena specifically stated he had never told anyone, including Carlos Bringuier, that Oswald had been in the Habana Bar with a Mexican prior to the assassination of President Kennedy. He also said he never heard his brother, Ruperto Pena, say that Oswald had been in the bar with a Mexican. He also stated that he had no information that the FBI was ever looking for a Mexican who had ever patronized his bar." Did you tell the FBI that?

Mr. Pena.

I don't think so.

Mr. Liebeler.

In fact, you did tell Bringuier that you had seen Oswald in the bar?

Mr. Pena.

When we were talking after the assassination, we were talking about it.