Mr. Rodriguez.

he was arrested, but I didn't see him get into the police car because I took off. I left because I thought I might be following the same path.

Mr. Liebeler.

Were you walking when you saw Carlos arrested?

Mr. Rodriguez.

I Was in a car passing in the street when I saw Carlos talking with the police.

Mr. Liebeler.

Who was with you in the car?

Mr. Rodriguez.

Orest Pena had driven me to the doctor, and this is how we happened to be in the car together when we passed going to the Habana Bar when we saw Carlos.

Mr. Liebeler.

Off the record. (Discussion off the record.)

Mr. Liebeler.

Did Orest see Bringuier that day?

Mr. Rodriguez.

I don't know whether Orest saw him or not. Orest was doing the driving. I am not sure whether he saw him or not.

Mr. Liebeler.

Was Oswald in the bar before or after you saw Carlos in the street with the policeman?

Mr. Rodriguez.

I am not sure, but it was either a couple of days before Oswald was in the bar or a couple of days after, but I can't remember well enough to be exact.

Mr. Liebeler.

But it was about that time that you saw Oswald in the bar; is that right?

Mr. Rodriguez.

Yes; it was about the same time, same time in relation to days, you know, that same period.

Mr. Liebeler.

Yes. Do you remember whether you and Orest saw Carlos in the street before Orest went on vacation or afterward?

Mr. Rodriguez.

I don't remember whether it was before Orest went on vacation or after that I saw Carlos in the street.

Mr. Liebeler.

Orest was in the bar when Oswald was there? That's right, is it not?

Mr. Rodriguez.

Yes. He was in the bar when Oswald was there.

Mr. Logan.

He says he is trying to remember the best he can.

Mr. Liebeler.

He is doing very well.

Mr. Logan.

He is saying that the time passes and it is hard for him to remember everything, but he is trying to remember the best he can.

Mr. Liebeler.

Did Orest see Oswald?

Mr. Rodriguez.

I didn't see, I don't believe, that Orest saw Oswald. Orest was in the back part of the bar near the telephone, and Oswald and his friend were sitting at a table near the cigarette machine, which is in the right-hand side of the front part of the bar, and Oswald's back was to the place where Orest was at the time.

Mr. Liebeler.

Did Orest come up and talk to .them when you had this argument about the lemonade and tequila?

Mr. Rodriguez.

No; Orest never talked to Oswald or the other man during this altercation about the tequila.

Mr. Liebeler.

To the best of your knowledge, Orest never came up or looked at them or saw them while they were there?

Mr. Rodriguez.

To the best of my recollection, Orest Pena never saw these two men up close, and, as a matter of fact, Orest was talking on the telephone, and when I asked him about the lemonade, he just told me what to do and didn't pay any more attention to it than that.

Mr. Liebeler.

Did you see anybody else with Carlos and the policeman at the time you saw Carlos on the street with ,the policeman as you have already told us?

Mr. Rodriguez.

At the time I saw Carlos Bringuier on .the street with the police, I didn't see anybody being put into the police car, but I remember slightly that there were probably three other people in the police car at the time, but I don't know who they were, and I was passing in a car, of course, and didn't have an opportunity to pay any attention to that.

Mr. Liebeler.

You didn't see Oswald there?

Mr. Rodriguez.

I didn't see Oswald at that time.

Mr. Liebeler.

Do you know Celso Hernandez?

Mr. Rodriguez.

I don't know him. I am acquainted with Bringuier.