Mr. Jenner.

No outbursts of any kind?

Mr. Graef.

No.

Mr. Jenner.

Anything said about what might happen if he sought references in any future employment?

Mr. Graef.

Yes; I told him--I volunteered the information. I said, "Lee, if there is another job that you find, I'll be glad to give you a recommendation, a good recommendation," because---I told him, "I think you have tried," and I think he had. It would have been, of course, with reservations---any new employer that had called me for a recommendation, I would have had to say something about his relations with other employees.

Mr. Jenner.

And that would have been somewhat negative?

Mr. Graef.

That's correct; but he did to become a worker. It wasn't that he wasn't industrious---he was not lazy. He, to the best of-his ability, tried but the ability was not there.

Mr. Jenner.

Now, I take it then from your recital that his discharge was for the reasons you have given and not because of any past history that you discovered with respect to him?

Mr. Graef.

No.

Mr. Jenner.

And, throughout all of this employment, you had no information with regard to his past history other than you have related to us?

Mr. Graef.

No.

Mr. Jenner.

Does Jaggars-Chiles-Stovall do any highly secret work of any character or highly confidential work?

Mr. Graef.

Yes, yes; we do some work for, I think, the Army Map Service. We do a certain type of work for the Engineers, I believe, but I couldn't be sure about that.

Mr. Jenner.

Is that in your department or under your supervision or direction?

Mr. Graef.

No.

Mr. Jenner.

Would he have had any contact with that?

Mr. Graef.

No.

Mr. Jenner.

Did there come to your attention any scuttlebutt among employees as to any past history of his?

Mr. Graef.

No; I think if it had, I would have in fact--I am very positive I -would have investigated that.

Mr. Jenner.

Did any of the reports to you, which you have detailed to me, include anything with regard to any political theories or arguments or positions that he took as with respect to other employees?

Mr. Graef.

No; none None that came to my attention. There was never any political conversations that I heard about him or between him, or that I heard him talking with the people or anything like that.

Mr. Jenner.

I think I have no more questions. I would like to put, however, the general question that I do put in all these depositions. Is there anything that might occur to you that I have not stimulated to ask you but that you think--any incident that occurred or any circumstance that you think might possibly be of help to the Commission in their investigation of this man and of the overall incident we are investigating?

Mr. Graef.

No; I really don't think so. Of course, the whole thing is just a tragic, unbelievable thing.

Mr. Jenner.

Yes.

Mr. Graef.

That you rub shoulders with someone who did such a thing is just fantastic.

Mr. Jenner.

If he did it?

Mr. Graef.

It's just unbelievable it's still hard to believe that you were in such clue contact with anyone that took part in the events.

Mr. Jenner.

Now, is there anything in my off-the-record discussion we have had, and there ,have been substantially none, that took place during that interlude that I have failed to bring out?

Mr. Graef.

I might add this I'll let you repeat that question in a moment.

Mr. Jenner.

All right.

Mr. Graef.

This thought occurred--I was trying to think a moment ago what I was going to do, because there was something that I wanted to make mention