Mr. Paine.

him only occasionally when he would go to the madrigals and once I went skating with him. Occasionally we have met also at the theater center. He has been there also. Occasionally also I have stopped by--there is a--he showed up once or twice at a single adult party dance of the Unitarian Church.

Mr. Liebeler.

He doesn't work with Bell Helicopter, does he?

Mr. Paine.

No; he works for an oil company, I think.

Mr. Liebeler.

He is a geologist?

Mr. Paine.

He may be something of that sort.

Mr. Liebeler.

Richard Pierce?
Mr. PAINE,. Yes; he lived with Everett Glover.

Mr. Liebeler.

How well do you know him?

Mr. Paine.

I know him much less than Everett. When we visited Everett's house for a sing or something, I think I would meet him, and he also would come to these single adult parties--but I don't know----

Mr. Liebeler.

What about Mr. and Mrs. Norman Fredricksen?

Mr. Paine.

That name doesn't ring a bell either.

Mr. Liebeler.

Volkmar Schmidt?

Mr. Paine.

He is in that same category with Mr. Pierce living with Everett and occasionally showing up at the stag parties.

Mr. Liebeler.

Do you know a Mr. and Mrs. Thomas Ray?

Mr. Paine.

I don't think I know Ray.

Mr. Liebeler.

Ilya Mamantov?

Mr. Paine.

I suppose that is Mr. Mamantov whom I recognize by sight but I may have shaken his hand.

Mr. Liebeler.

How do you have occasion to recognize him by sight?

Mr. Paine.

Well, he is the son-in-law, if Ilya is the right name I don't know, I know him as Mr. Mamantov, Ruth's tutor, I have forgotten his name at this time.

Mr. Liebeler.

Dorothy Gravitis?

Mr. Paine.

That is right. And I have seen him around SMU and he was an interpreter at the police station.

Mr. Liebeler.

Do you know anybody by the name of Harten?

Mr. Paine.

No.

Mr. Liebeler.

Warner Kloepfer?

Mr. Paine.

No; I don't think so.

Mr. Liebeler.

Has Ruth ever spoken to you of the Kloepfers?

Mr. Paine.

Not that I can recall.

Mr. Liebeler.

My understanding is they lived there in New Orleans.

Mr. Paine.

Oh, then I don't know them. No.

Mr. Liebeler.

Do you know a Charles Edward Harris?

Mr. Paine.

No.

Mr. Liebeler.

Florence McDonald?

Mr. Paine.

I know Elizabeth MacDonald, I think it is.

Mr. Liebeler.

Who is she?

Mr. Paine.

She was a friend of---she would come to these madrigal groups and I think she was a friend of either of Everett or of Pierce or something like that. It was in connection with the madrigal sings and I think they were the ones who brought them into circulation.

Mr. Liebeler.

Do you know Col. J. D. Wilmeth?

Mr. Paine.

No; I don't know him. A colleague at work lives nearby who shares a well with him and keeps it repaired.

Mr. Liebeler.

Who does?

Mr. Paine.

Clark Benham, another colleague at work, uses the water from Colonel Wilmeth's well and has to keep the well operating so I hear stories about Mr. Wilmeth and he lives with his old, ancient mother. I haven't met him myself, I don't believe.

Mr. Liebeler.

You mentioned that---did you mention that he called you at your office at one time?

Mr. Paine.

Yes; I think he has, yes.

Mr. Liebeler.

Would you tell us the circumstances of that event?

Mr. Paine.

Well, he wanted to see Marina, I think, he wanted to hear, I think he said he wanted to hear the native tongue spoken or spoken by a native. And