Mr. Jenner.

And have you, as part of those activities, sought to enlist others to become members of the American Civil Liberties Union?

Mrs. Paine.

I have talked to perhaps half a dozen people, to encourage them; yes.

Mr. Jenner.

Did you ever discuss this organization with Lee Oswald?

Mrs. Paine.

Yes; I did.

Mr. Jenner.

Have you told us in your testimony up to this moment all of your discussion of that organization with Lee Oswald?

Mrs. Paine.

Yes; I have. I call your attention to my testimony of a conversation with Lee over the phone saying that I thought that if he was losing his job because of his political views, that this would be of interest to the Civil Liberties Union.

Mr. Jenner.

Did any of those discussions embrace the question of what possible help this organization might be to him if he got into trouble eventually?

Mrs. Paine.

My judgment is that he took that statement I have just referred to as an implication of the possibility of help from that organization to him personally.

Mr. Jenner.

With reference particularly to the possible need at any time for counsel?

Mrs. Paine.

He may have assumed such a thing. My understanding of the Civil Liberties Union is that they are not interested in just defending people, but in defending rights or entering a case where there is doubt that a person's civil liberties have been properly upheld.

Mr. Jenner.

Or might be?

Mrs. Paine.

Or there might be such doubt; yes. I wouldn't know whether Lee understood that.

Mr. Jenner.

At least your discussions with him do not enable you to proceed to the point at which to enable you to voice any opinions in this area or subject than you have now given?

Mrs. Paine.

No.

Mr. Jenner.

Were you aware of the name John Abt before you received the telephone call you testified about from Lee Oswald?

Mrs. Paine.

No; I had not heard that name.

Mr. Jenner.

And, therefore, you never suggested it to Lee Oswald?

Mrs. Paine.

No; that is right.

Mr. Jenner.

You are a modest person, but could you indicate for us how fluent you are or you think you are in the command of the Russian language? Please don't be too modest about it. Be as objective as you can.

Mrs. Paine.

It is a very hard thing to describe, but I might start by saying that I have perhaps an 8- or 10 -year-old's vocabulary.

Mr. Jenner.

You are using as an example the vocabulary of a native Russian citizen of the age of 8 to 10 years old?

Mrs. Paine.

Yes; I do not have that much fluency. If the subject I am talking about is something in which I have developed a vocabulary--and these subjects are mostly in terms of home or the things that one does--then I can proceed with an ability to convey my meaning. If it gets into anything technical which would use terms such as insurance or taxes, I have to look it up. I approach any writing of a letter with some dread, as it is difficult for me. I might say in this connection that I presume to teach Russian, not because I am fluent, but because I think my pronunciation is particularly good for a nonnative, and because I have gone the route of the beginning student and know how to do this, and have thought a great deal about what helps a person to learn. I would not presume to teach English to people who didn't know the language, though I am fluent in it.

Mr. Jenner.

Yes; you are.
You used a 10-year-old comparison as to vocabulary. What would you say as to your Russian grammar--that is, command of the technicalities of grammar? Would it be superior to an 8- to 10-year-old?

Mrs. Paine.

My vocabulary----

Mr. Jenner.

I mean sentence construction.

Mrs. Paine.

An 8- to 10-year-old would do better than I do in actual conversation, but would not be able to give you the names of parts of speech as I can