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(Testimony of Paul Roderick Gregory)
Mr. Gregory.
No; I asked them about travel that each of them had done in the Soviet Union, and the only other place that they mentioned as having been, or one of them as having been, was Leningrad, which was the city where Marina received her training as a pharmacist. And I don't know if Lee had gone to Leningrad or not. Of course, Lee would always tell me about his trips to Moscow and his trips to the mausoleum, and going to all the museums and factories. He seemed to speak as if he were a regular tourist then, because they assigned him an interpreter, and evidently he paid the regular tourist fee.
Mr. Liebeler.
Did he tell you when this was?
Mr. Gregory.
No; he may have told me. I am sure it was in winter, because he said--no, I am not sure. Put this down as something I don't remember well, but I think that he said that it was cold and that the Russians let him get up to the first line because he was an American It could have been someone else, because I have had several friends that--I can't remember if that was Lee or not.
When he did speak of, I believe when we were having our conversations was after--I can't remember when the de-Stalinization was, when they took Stalin out of the mausoleum, but it happened before Lee came back, and I asked him about that. That was another thing he seemed to get quite a laugh out of. He looked at it very skeptically and thought the Russians should be laughed at for doing things like this, where the street signs would change overnight and no one would mention Stalin's name any more, and he thought it was highly comical I am saying this to show that, in my opinion, he wasn't--never mind.
Mr. Liebeler.
No; I would like to hear your remarks.
Mr. Gregory.
Well, I don't know how to put it. In other words, he looked at things critically over there.
He was not one who would say Khrushchev said this, therefore it is right. He always was more or less critically observant of everything he saw over there.
Mr. Liebeler.
When you say critically, you mean, as I understand now your use of the word, he attempted to observe things objectively and perceptively? He just didn't follow things because somebody handed it out?
Mr. Gregory.
Yes.
Mr. Liebeler.
You don't mean to use the words in the sense that he was just complaining about things, do you?
Mr. Gregory.
I could say you can use it in both senses. My main point was that if Khrushchev says this, well, any good party man or anyone who would be a conformist, if Khrushchev says that is fine, he was not that type. He always expressed a great admiration for Khrushchev. He seemed to think he was quite a brilliant man. And he said you cannot read a speech of Khrushchev's without liking the man. He said he was a very rough man, a very crude man, but he thought of him as a very brilliant man and very able leader.
Mr. Liebeler.
Can you remember anything else that he might have said about him, Mr. Khrushchev?
Mr. Gregory.
Well, he might have spoken of him several times, but that was the general idea. And while we were on Khrushchev, whenever he would speak about Khrushchev, Kennedy would naturally come into mind, and he expressed admiration of Kennedy.
Both he and Marina would say, "Nice young man." I never heard him say anything derogatory about Kennedy. He seemed to admire the man, because I remember they had a copy of Life magazine which was always in their living room, and it had Kennedy's picture on it, or I believe Kennedy or someone else, and he always expressed what I would interpret as admiration for Kennedy.
Mr. Liebeler.
Can you recall any specific details concerning his remarks about Kennedy or the conversation that you had with him concerning Kennedy?
Mr. Gregory.
No; just that one time, as I can remember in their apartment that we did look at this picture of Kennedy, and Marina said, "He looks like a nice young man." And Lee said something, yes, he is a good leader, or something, as I remember, was a positive remark about Kennedy.
Mr. Liebeler.
He never expressed any adverse feelings or made any adverse remarks about President Kennedy in your presence?
Mr. Gregory.
No.
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