At this time, being Christmas and so, and I am not real strongly religious--I mean not to any extreme, but I have my firm beliefs, and I believe in God and the fundamentals of our Christianity--I am a Baptist---I mentioned to Oswald-- this is what touched the whole thing off--they didn't have a Christmas tree. We wondered why, because you can buy a Christmas tree for 39 cents, probably a little one, and my wife, I think, asked why they didn't have a Christmas tree, and Oswald said he didn't want a Christmas tree, that he didn't believe in this sort of thing, that it was commercialized, and so forth.
When he mentioned this, it got me interested in his thinking. This was actually the first time I think that--this is the third time that I saw him---I think this was the first time I felt he was odd, because when he crossed me on religion, I mean just general religion, not anything specific--when he crossed me on religion, then I was offended mentally.
I might not have seemed that way--I didn't get mad or anything, but I didn't like it, and I asked him about, since he didn't have a car, I asked him if Elena, when we went to the Greek Orthodox Church here in Dallas, if we might stop by and pick him up and take him with us.
And he said, "Oh, no, he didn't believe in Christianity, that this Marxism, Leninism, this book, whatever the name it was----

Mr. Liebeler.

Did he have a book there?

Mr. Hall.

I didn't see it if he did. He had a lot of Russian literature, I saw, but I never really thumbed through it.

Mr. Liebeler.

Do you remember any specific books or periodicals that he had?

Mr. Hall.

No; I really don't.

Mr. Liebeler.

Go ahead.

Mr. Hall.

Well, we differed on religion. So then he told Elena that he didn't believe in Christianity and so forth, he said, "If you want to come by and pick up Marina and take her to church, that is all right, but I am not going to go."
About that time we left, The conversation wasn't interesting, and we had gone over to take this little present to the baby, and we had accomplished the purpose, so we left.

Mr. Liebeler.

When was it that you discussed with Oswald the reasons why he went to Russia?

Mr. Hall.

The next time was Easter, if I am getting all this straight. I hadn't been in business long for myself. I was real strong for the system of free enterprise, and I asked Oswald how he was getting along down at the printing place, and he said, "Well, he was doing as well as could be expected, except the fact was that he didn't have security in his job and didn't like the whole setup."
And I wondered why. And he said, "He didn't have security."
And I told him, "Well, nobody has security actually. We have to work and keep up with what is going on and keep getting ahead, and that it seemed to me like he could stay down there for 2 or 3 or 4 years and learn what had to be learned and open his own shop, and that he would be bettering himself and making more money and having more niceties of life.
And so the point is, with this system of free enterprise which I was real strong for, because I was trying to get ahead, and so Oswald, he told me that he was, he had already been discontent with the United States, that he didn't have security, and he really didn't know where his next job was coming from, and he heard through these theories that everything was controlled by the State in Russia, and that that was the reason he wanted to go, so to speak, and that is about it, inasfar as he was just unhappy with all of our systems.

Mr. Liebeler.

Did he indicate to you that he had any desire to return to Russia?

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