(Testimony of Max E. Clark)
Mr. Clark.
for the first time, so he was not trying to keep it a secret and in talking with him I asked him why he went to Russia. He said that he was in the Marines, and he had read a lot of Karl Marx and he had studied considerably while he was in the Marines and he decided that he would get out of the Marines and he would go to Russia.
Mr. Liebeler.
Did he tell you that he studied Marxism when he was in the Marines?
Mr. Clark.
Yes.
Mr. Liebeler.
Did he indicate to you that he had studied the Russian language while in the Marines?
Mr. Clark.
He indicated he had because I asked him how he learned to speak Russian and he said he studied, while in the Marines and learned a lot more when he went to Russia but apparently, he studied it quite awhile before he left.
Mr. Liebeler.
Did he tell you whether he took any formal courses or whether this was private effort?
Mr. Clark.
He did not indicate but it was my impression it was more or less self-study and he stated that when he got his discharge from the Marines that he went--I said, "How did you get a visa; how did you get to Russia?" He said very simple; he just went down, made application to get a visa and what he had to do was to put up so much money for some kind of tour and at the same time when he put up this money for his passage, why, he got his visa stamped and he said he went to Russia, and the minute he got to Russia, he went to the American Embassy and told them he wanted to renounce his citizenship and he turned in his passport and he went to see about becoming a Soviet citizen and they told him they couldn't do it but they gave him a work permit.
Mr. Liebeler.
Did he tell you why the Russians would not accept him as a Russian citizen?
Mr. Clark.
No; he didn't say. He indicated he had to stay there a length of time before he could become a citizen and he already secured a work permit card and they assigned him an apartment and he said because he was a marine he got a better apartment. He got an apartment with a washstand and he was quite proud of the fact he got a little better apartment than the normal working person there.
Mr. Liebeler.
Did he tell you where he was sent to work?
Mr. Clark.
He did and I think it was in Minsk or some place; I don't remember exactly. He told me the name of the town; it was wherever Marina came from. I have forgotten which one it was.
Mr. Liebeler.
Did he tell you any more details about his relations with the American Embassy and the Soviet authorities when he first came to the Soviet Union?
Mr. Clark.
Nothing except he turned in his passport and tried to become a Soviet citizen and they refused to make him a citizen and they gave him this work permit and he was particularly unhappy about the fact they didn't make a fuss about him and put him to work as a common sheet metal worker.
Mr. Liebeler.
Did he tell you that?
Mr. Clark.
Yes; he told me.
Mr. Liebeler.
What did he say?
Mr. Clark.
I asked him what it was like working there and he said the closest comparison he could give would be like the Marine Corps. He said if you got up so high in a job it was like being promoted to corporal, sergeant and so forth. He said the higher you went in their jobs, the more privileges you got and he said in his job he felt if he stayed there 5 years he might get up maybe one rung in the ladder and he didn't think it was real communism is the way he put it and that he thought he was completely disgruntled about it. He said you could get a job any place and they always had about five people to do each job; said he didn't work hard but you couldn't progress unless you stayed in one place and made friends with the boss and he said he didn't like that; and he said if he wanted to go to a bigger city--I said why didn't you go to another factory if you did not like that. He said he could but then he couldn't get an apartment or place to live and they controlled the workers by limiting the places you could live and they assigned you an apartment and it
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