Mr. Zapruder.

were police running right behind me. Of course, they didn't realize yet, I guess, where the shot came from--that it came from that height.

Mr. Liebeler.

As you were standing on this abutment facing Elm street, you say the police ran over behind the concrete structure behind you and down the railroad track behind that, is that right?

Mr. Zapruder.

After the shots?

Mr. Liebeler.

Yes.

Mr. Zapruder.

Yes--after the shots--yes, some of them were motorcycle cops--I guess they left their motorcycles running and they were running right behind me, of course, in the line of the shooting. I guess they thought it came from right behind me.

Mr. Liebeler.

Did you have any impression as to the direction from which these shots came?

Mr. Zapruder.

No, I also thought it came from back of me. Of course, you can't tell when something is in line it could come from anywhere, but being I was here and he was hit on this line and he was hit right in the head--I saw it right around here, so it looked like it came from here and it could come from there.

Mr. Liebeler.

All right, as you stood here on the abutment and looked down into Elm Street, you saw the President hit on the right side of the head and you thought perhaps the shots had come from behind you?

Mr. Zapruder.

Well, yes.

Mr. Liebeler.

From the direction behind you?

Mr. Zapruder.

Yes, actually--I couldn't say what I thought at the moment, where they came from--after the impact of the tragedy was really what I saw and I started and I said--yelling, "They've killed him"--I assumed that they came from there, because as the police started running back of me, it looked like it came from the back of me.

Mr. Liebeler.

But you didn't form any opinion at that time as to what direction the shots did come from actually?

Mr. Zapruder.

No.

Mr. Liebeler.

And you indicated that they could have come also from behind or from any other direction except perhaps from the left, because they could have been from behind or even from the front.

Mr. Zapruder.

Well, it could have been--in other words if you have a point--you could hit a point from any place, as far as that's concerned. I have no way of determining what direction the bullet was going.

Mr. Liebeler.

Did you form any opinion about the direction from which the shots came by the sound, or were you just upset by the thing you had seen?

Mr. Zapruder.

No, there was too much reverberation. There was an echo which gave me a sound all over. In other words that square is kind of--it had a sound all over.

Mr. Liebeler.

And with the buildings around there, too?

Mr. Zapruder.

Yes, the reverberation was such that a sound--as it would vibrate--it didn't vibrate so much but as to whether it was a backfire--in other words, I didn't from the first sound, from him leaning over--I couldn't think it was a shot, but of course, the second--I think it was the second shot. I don't know whether they proved anything--they claim he was hit--that the first bullet went through him and hit Connally or something like that--I don't know how that is.

Mr. Liebeler.

Well, there are many different theories about that. One thing I would like you to do now--we have a series-- a little book here that is Commission Exhibit No. 885 and it consists of a number of frames from motion pictures and I want to show you certain numbers of them which are important to our work and ask you if those look like they were taken from your film and if in fact you could recognize it as you look through this book that these are individual frame-by-frame pictures of the pictures that you took.

Mr. Zapruder.

Yes, they are frame by frame and they weren't very clear, for the simple reason that on the telephoto lens it's good to take stills--when you move did you ever have binoculars and every time you move everything is exaggerated in the move that's one reason why they are kind of blurred--the movement. Now, you want me to identify whether these are my pictures?