Mr. Hill.

Yes, sir; I did.

Mr. Belin.

Was this gun the gun that Officer Carroll handed to you?

Mr. Hill.

And identified to me as the suspect's weapon.

Mr. Belin.

This is what has now been marked as Commission Exhibit 143, is that correct?

Mr. Hill.

Yes, sir; that is what it says.

Mr. Belin.

It also says the number on this sack in kind of a red ink or something "C15" on it, too, is that right?

Mr. Hill.

It has C15, and on the other side it has 176-G, whatever that is.

Mr. Belin.

And then we have marked Commission Exhibit 143?

Mr. Hill.

Right.

Mr. Belin.

Now, you said as the driver of the car, Bob Carroll, got in the car, he handed this gun to you?

Mr. Hill.

Right, sir.

Mr. Belin.

All right, then, would you tell us what happened? What was said and what was done?

Mr. Hill.

Then I broke the gun open to see how many shells it contained and how many live rounds it had in it.

Mr. Belin.

How many did you find?

Mr. Hill.

There were six in the chambers of the gun. One of them had an indention in the primer that appeared to be caused by the hammer. There were five others. All of the shells at this time had indentions.
All of the shells appeared to have at one time or another scotch tape on them because in an area that would have been the width of a half inch strip of scotch tape, there was kind of a bit of lint and residue on the jacket of the shell.

Mr. Belin.

Did you ever mark those?

Mr. Hill.

I can say that I marked all six of them.

Mr. Belin.

I am first going to hand you what has been marked as Q-178 on the lead portion. It is 178 or 170. It appears to be Q-178, with the initials JH running together and CK, and then another initial R, with a dash behind it.
Do you see any identification mark of yours on there at all?

Mr. Hill.

Yes, sir; on the side of the jacket of the bullet there is the name scratched H-i-l-l, and also the initials BC. I scratched the H-i-l-1 on this shell, and Bob Carroll scratched the BC on it in my presence in the personnel office of the police department on the third floor.

Mr. Belin.

What is that?

Mr. Hill.

This is one of the shells which is a .38 special-shell that was removed from the suspect's weapon, removed from the weapon that was taken from the suspect at the time of his arrest.

Mr. Belin.

When was it removed?

Mr. Hill.

They were not taken out of the gun, as I recall, sir, until we arrived at the station.

Mr. Belin.

Who took it out of the gun?

Mr. Hill.

I took it out of the gun.

Mr. Belin.

Did you keep it in your possession until you put on your initials?

Mr. Hill.

All six shells remained in my possession until I initialed them.

Mr. Belin.

Was this an empty shell or live bullet?

Mr. Hill.

That is a live round.

Mr. Belin.

For what caliber?

Mr. Hill.

A .38 caliber.

Mr. Belin.

I am going to hand you another bullet which has been marked Q-177.

Mr. Hill.

That appears to be Q-177.
It's also on the what appears to be the copper tip has the initial JH running together, the initials CK on it also.
It is a Western .38 special bullet. It has not been fired. It is a copper-colored slug. On the case of this shell is also the name H-i-l-l, which was placed there on November 22.

Mr. Belin.

Let the record show that I believe that these are Exhibit 145, but I am not sure. I mean Commission Exhibit 145, and therefore, I identified them by the "Q" number which is on the bullet itself.