Mr. Liebeler.

You mean on Commission Exhibit No. 354?

Mr. Altgens.

Yes, sir.

Mr. Liebeler.

Oh, no; not at all. These figures numbers 1, 2, and 3 don't indicate where the shots hit. They are for entirely different purposes. Figure No. 1 on this picture, Commission Exhibit No. 354, indicates where someone was standing--that's all that indicates.

Mr. Altgens.

Well, I will have to ask you this question, then, sir, because as you will know by looking at this picture----

Mr. Liebeler.

Commission Exhibit No. 203?

Mr. Altgens.

Excuse me---picture 203--there is a tree way behind the Presidential car. Now, figure 1 is placed up in front of this tree, which means that figure 1 would have been behind the car at the time the President received the first shot.

Mr. Liebeler.

Yes; referring to Exhibit No. 354.

Mr. Aliens.

Yes, sir.

Mr. Liebeler.

Of course, that has no significance because these numbers have nothing to do with the place where the car was when the President was hit.

Mr. Aliens.

I'm sorry--I just misinterpreted it.

Mr. Liebeler.

I can see why you could assume that, because as you look here at Commission Exhibit No. 354, you see 1, 2, 3, and 4 spaced down Elm Street and you did infer that that's the location the President's car was when it was hit.

Mr. Altgens.

Yes, sir.

Mr. Liebeler.

Which is not right because those numbers do not indicate that in any way whatsoever--they are not related to that notion at all.

Mr. Altgens.

Yes, sir; I did not move from fixed position 3. If I moved at all, it would be to step into the curb area to make a picture and back upon the curb because there were motorcycle policemen on either side of the Presidential car and I didn't want to get in their way, but if you will look at this picture----

Mr. Liebeler.

Referring to Exhibit No. 203.

Mr. Altgens.

You will see by then referring to picture No. 354, that the Presidential car was well down Elm Street in front of a tree that is located in a grassy area which is just off of Elm Street and just off of the street that runs down in front of the Book Depository Building, which would indicate that the point at which he was struck, the location of the car, would be approximately 30 feet in front of the position from which I made this picture. Does that make sense?

Mr. Liebeler.

Yes; what you are saying is that picture 203 was taken at a time when the President's car had actually gone down Elm Street to a point past this tree that stands at the corner here, in the grassy area, outlined by Elm Street and a little street that runs down by the Texas School Book Depository Building?

Mr. Altgens.

Yes, sir.

Mr. Liebeler.

Now, the thing that is troubling me, though, Mr. Altgens, is that you say the car was 30 feet away at the time you took Commission Exhibit No. 203 and that is the time at which the first shot was fired?

Mr. Altgens.

Yes, sir.

Mr. Liebeler.

And that it was 15 feet away at the time the third shot was fired.

Mr. Altgens.

Yes, sir.

Mr. Liebeler.

But during that period of time the car moved much more than 15 feet down Elm Street going down toward the triple underpass?

Mr. Altgens.

Yes, sir.

Mr. Liebeler.

I don't know how many feet it moved, but it moved quite a ways from the time the first shot was fired until the time the third shot was fired. I'm having trouble on this Exhibit No. 203 understanding how you could have been within 30 feet of the President's car when you took Commission Exhibit No. 203 and within 15 feet of the car when he was hit with the last shot in the head without having moved yourself. Now, you have previously indicated that you were right beside the President's car when he was hit in the head.

Mr. Altgens.

Well, I was about 15 feet from it.

Mr. Liebeler.

But it was almost directly in front of you as it went down the street; isn't that right?

Mr. Altgens.

Yes.