Mr. Altgens.

No, sir; my attention was primarily on the President and Mrs. Kennedy and I just wasn't paying too much attention about the other people in the car after what I saw happen. Of course, my concern was about the President and I just wasn't paying too much attention to others in the car.

Mr. Liebeler.

You are quite sure in your mind, however, that there were no shots, a noise that sounded like shots, prior to the time at which you took the picture that has been marked Commission Exhibit No. 203; is that correct?

Mr. Altgens.

No, sir; I did not--you see----all of these shots sounded the same. If you heard one you would recognize the other shots and these were all the same. It was a pop that I don't believe I could identify it any other way than as a firecracker and this particular picture was made at the time the first firecracker noise was heard by me.

Mr. Liebeler.

Now, you don't think that there could have been any other shots fired prior to that time that you wouldn't have heard, you were standing right there and you would have heard them, would you not?

Mr. Altgens.

I'm sure I would have yes, sir.

Mr. Liebeler.

You also testified that you were standing perhaps no more than 15 feet away when the President was hit in the head and that you are absolutely certain that there were no shots fired after the President was hit in the head?

Mr. Altgens.

Yes, sir; that's correct.

Mr. Liebeler.

Could you tell us approximately how many shots there were between the first and the last shot--as you well know--there were supposed to have been three shots, but how many shots did you hear?

Mr. Altgens.

Well, I wouldn't want to say--I don't want to guess, because facts are so important on something like this. I am inclined to feel like that there were not as many as I have heard people say. I think it's of a smaller denomination, a smaller number, but I cannot--I can really only vouch for the two. Now, I know that there was at least one shot in between.

Mr. Liebeler.

At least one?

Mr. Altgens.

I would say that--I know there was one in between. It is possible there might have been another one I don't really know, but two, I can really account for.

Mr. Liebeler.

And that's the first one and the last one?

Mr. Altgens.

Yes, sir.

Mr. Liebeler.

Do you have any recollection as to the spacing of these shots?

Mr. Altgens.

They seemed to be at almost regular intervals and they were quick.

Mr. Liebeler.

How much time do you think elapsed between the first and the last shot?

Mr. Altgens.

Well, let's see---I would have to figure it out on a speed basis because they were going at approximately 12 to 15 miles per hour downhill and I would say that all the shots were fired within the space of less than 30 seconds. That's an estimate.

Mr. Liebeler.

How far away was the Presidential car when you took the picture that has been marked Commission Exhibit No. 203---you must have had your camera focused?

Mr. Altgens.

Yes, sir; it was about 30 feet.

Mr. Liebeler.

Looking at Commission Exhibit No. 354, we have placed you at No. 3 on that picture.

Mr. Altgens.

Yes, sir.

Mr. Liebeler.

In looking at Commission Exhibit No. 203, does it appear to you that 203 could have been taken from position 3 on Commission Exhibit No. 354 and only be 30 feet away from the Presidential car at that time--I'm not saying it wasn't--I mean, just what does it look like to you? The question I'm driving at, of course, is--I want to know--did you move from the time you took the first picture, which is Commission Exhibit No. 203, and the time you saw the President's head hit, did you move down the street at all?

Mr. Altgens.

May I ask you a question in return?

Mr. Liebeler.

Sure.

Mr. Altgens.

I have no reason to doubt that by relating other testimony, that you have come up with this figure 1 as being an exact location as to when the Presidential car was struck by the bullet--the first bullet.