And what conversations, if any, did you have with then-Vice president Johnson?
Mr. O'DONNELL. I told him it looked very, very serious, and in my opinion that it was probably fatal. I hadn't been able to get a totally definite answer, but that I would let him know as soon as it was definite---but it looked pretty black.
I then left him. I don't recollect that he even commented. I left him and went back to Mrs. Kennedy, and within a very few minutes they confirmed the fact that the President was dead.

Mr. Specter.

What did you do next?
Mr. O'DONNELL. As soon as I was assured that he was dead, and it was definite, I went back to the Vice President and informed him the President was dead, and that in my opinion he ought to get out of there as fast as he could. We had a general discussion. The President's first words to me were that we must look upon this in a sense that it might be a conspiracy of some nature, and that all security must be taken, and that we then discussed whether one of the possible movements might be to move the Presidential aircraft from Love Field to Carswell, where no route of departure could be laid out, and where there would be military security.
We discussed that. It was my opinion that his best movement was to move directly to Love Field. In fact, the routes would not be available anyway, because this was not a schedule the departure from the hospital to the field would not be covered, if that were a possibility. And that it would be much better if he got to the field immediately, where he was under security and got aboard one of the aircraft.

Mr. Specter.

Was there any discussion about his taking the presidential plane, AF-1, as opposed to AF-2?
Mr. O'DONNELL. There was not.

Mr. Specter.

Did Vice President Johnson look to you in any way for a recommendation on his subsequent plans in terms of your being then in charge of the presidential party?
Mr. O'DONNELL. It was my impression that he did, that he, with the President gone that he felt I was--had to assume a position of responsibility, both with regard to Mrs. Kennedy and as to himself. He asked me, as I recall--he asked me for my advice as to his departure and used the words, "I am in your hands now," at some point in the conversation.
But I did get the impression that he wanted official--that isn't the proper word--but that his movements should be approved by all concerned.

Mr. Specter.

Have you now related all the conversation you had at that time with then-Vice President Johnson?
Mr. O'DONNELL. To the best of my recollection.

Mr. Specter.

What did you do next, then?
Mr. O'DONNELL. Next after I left the Vice President, I went back to Mrs. Kennedy. On the way through the lobby I noted the newspapermen were clamoring for information. I met Kilduff. He said, "Should we announce it?" And I said I think that is a decision that can only be made by the President "You better ask him." So that was the last I saw of Kilduff.

Mr. Specter.

Who is Kilduff?
Mr. O'DONNELL. He is the assistant press secretary.

Mr. Specter.

Malcolm Kilduff?
Mr. O'DONNELL. Malcolm Kilduff.
I then went back to Mrs. Kennedy, who was in a very understandably distraught condition. It was my opinion--I tried to in some way imply that she might leave and come with us, at least to get her out of that room. She was covered with blood.

Mr. Specter.

Which room was she in then?
Mr. O'DONNELL. She was in the same room. She had not moved. She was sitting near the door.

Mr. Specter.

That is the room where the President was treated by the Dallas doctors?
Mr. O'DONNELL. Yes; there is a little corridor. There were swinging doors. He was inside the swing door. She was not in the presence of the body.

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