Mr. Holmes.

And I think he is a Civil Liberties Union lawyer. He mentioned something about he looks after their interests in New York. I don't remember the name, but they discussed that.

Mr. Belin.

Would it be something like Abt?

Mr. Holmes.

Yes; short name. That could well be it.

Mr. Belin.

Anything else? Did he ever ask for any other lawyer or for any lawyer?

Mr. Holmes.

No.

Mr. Belin.

Do you remember that while this was going on if the chief of police came to the office?

Mr. Holmes.

Yes. Along toward the end of the interrogation several people kept milling around outside of Captain Fritz' office and I noticed the chief of police out there, and they would rap on the door, and once in a while crack the door and look in, and gave all the appearance of being impatient.
But Captain Fritz is a quiet and deliberate sort of individual and said, "Don't worry about the men. If you got any more questions, ask him."

Mr. Belin.

Who would be the people knocking and tapping on the window and would be impatient?

Mr. Holmes.

It was Chief Curry, and I didn't recognize the others, but there were people who later took him on downstairs, so they were waiting. They wanted to make this transfer, is what it was. In fact, the captain mentioned, he said, "We are going to have a little while to talk. I don't know how long, because they want to effect this transfer."
And everybody assumed that that was why they were getting impatient outside about, they wanted to go ahead and complete the transfer.

Mr. Belin.

Were there glass walls on Captain Fritz' office?

Mr. Holmes.

Yes; with venetian blinds.

Mr. Belin.

Were the venetian blinds closed?

Mr. Holmes.

They were closed, but you could see around the edges and through and every once in a while someone would lift a blind, and once in a while they would crack the door and look in.

Mr. Belin.

Were the venetian blinds inside or outside, or do you know?

Mr. Holmes.

I don't know, to tell you the truth.

Mr. Belin.

About how big was the office?

Mr. Holmes.

Just about as wide as this is.

Mr. Belin.

You want to pace it off here?

Mr. Holmes.

I would say 10 by 15, personally, feet.

Mr. Belin.

How many doors?

Mr. Holmes.

One door.

Mr. Belin.

Were there any other people outside there that morning other than the police officers, that you know of?

Mr. Holmes.

I recognized a couple of FBI agents. I couldn't call their names.

Mr. Belin.

Any press people that you recognized?

Mr. Holmes.

No.

Mr. Belin.

All right, now.

Mr. Holmes.

Of course, when we speak of outside Fritz' office, it is still an inclosure where you go out another door to go into the hall where the public mills around. He had a suite of rooms.

Mr. Belin.

You had one of the rooms in that suite?

Mr. Holmes.

Yes. In fact, he is in charge of all the rooms, but he has one private office of his own, and that is where we were.

Mr. Belin.

You do remember Chief Curry coming in?

Mr. Holmes.

Yes.

Mr. Belin.

Do you remember any conversation that transpired between Chief Curry and Captain Fritz?

Mr. Holmes.

As Chief Curry came in, someone handed some clothes on a hanger. It was maybe a sports shirt and a couple of pair of slacks, and I recall there were two sweaters and he said, "I will just take one of those sweaters." They gave him one sweater that he did not like. No, he said, "Give me the black one."
So he takes it, a little slip-over sweater. So, while he was putting that on,