Mr. Ball.

How far through school?

Mr. Ables.

Well, through 10 1/2 grades.

Mr. Ball.

Then where did you go?

Mr. Ables.

Joined the Navy.

Mr. Ball.

How long were you in the Navy?

Mr. Ables.

Seven and a half years.

Mr. Ball.

What did you do when you got out of the Navy?

Mr. Ables.

Came straight to Dallas and went to work for the police department.

Mr. Ball.

That was 7 months ago.

Mr. Ables.

Yes, sir.

Mr. Ables.

You were on duty on November 22, 1963, were you?

Mr. Ables.

Yes, sir.

Mr. Ball.

In the afternoon? Did you take part in a showup?

Mr. Ables.

Yes, sir.

Mr. Ball.

With Oswald?

Mr. Ables.

Yes, sir.

Mr. Ball.

How did you happen to take part in the showup? Tell me who asked you to, or ordered you to?

Mr. Ables.

Well, my supervisor in the jail office asked me to.

Mr. Ball.

What is his name?

Mr. Ables.

Sergeant Duncan.

Mr. Ball.

What did he tell you?

Mr. Ables.

Told me that they needed a man for the showup and go out there.

Mr. Ball.

To where?

Mr. Ables.

Well, they was all standing in the room, and I just joined in with them.

Mr. Ball.

Where did you go?

Mr. Ables.

Went into the showup room.

Mr. Ball.

Showup room?

Mr. Ables.

Yes, sir.

Mr. Ball.

How were you dressed when you went in the showup room?

Mr. Ables.

I was wearing a white shirt and this sweater here [indicating].

Mr. Ball.

You have a gray-knit sweater on?

Mr. Ables.

Yes.

Mr. Ball.

And dark trousers?

Mr. Ables.

Yes, sir.

Mr. Ball.

Have a tie on?

Mr. Ables.

No.

Mr. Ball.

Then you were dressed about like you are dressed today, is that right?

Mr. Ables.

Yes.

Mr. Ball.

Off the record.
(Discussion off the record.)

Mr. Ball.

Were you given any instructions when you went into the showup room?

Mr. Ables.

No, sir; none whatsoever.

Mr. Ball.

Had you ever been in a showup before?

Mr. Ables.

No.

Mr. Ball.

Had you ever heard of officers or employees of the Police Department being used in a showup before?

Mr. Ables.

Yes, sir; I have. I hadn't until I went to work for the police department.

Mr. Ball.

Did you ever afterwards?

Mr. Ables.

Yes, sir.

Mr. Ball.

Tell me, it is your conclusion I know, but tell me briefly what you learned as to the practice of the police department of using jail employees or officers in showups? You can generalize. I am not holding you down as to where you learned it. Tell me what you learned about it?

Mr. Ables.

Well, only times that I have heard that--I have never seen a police officer or employee used in a showup but only times I have heard of them being