Aside from the lines of flight, based on the factors which were known to you from the medical point of view and from the tests which you conducted, what would be the reason for the feeling which you just expressed?
Dr. OLIVIER. Because I believe you would need that, I mean to account for the damage to the wrist, I don't think you would have gotten a low enough velocity upon reaching the wrist unless you had gone through the President's body first.

Mr. Specter.

The President's body as well as the Governor's body?
Dr. OLIVIER. As well as the Governor's.

Mr. Specter.

Does the nature of the wound which was inflicted on Governor Connally's thigh shed any light on this subject?
Dr. OLIVIER. This, to my mind, at least, merely indicates the bullet at this time was about spent. In talking with doctor, I believe it was Gregory, I don't think he did the operation on the thigh but at least he saw the wound, and he said it was about the size of an eraser on a lead pencil. This could be accounted for--and there was also this small fragment of bullet in this thigh wound--this, to me, indicates that this was a spent bullet that had gone through the wrist as the Governor was sitting there, went through the wrist into his thigh, just partly imbedded and then fell out and I believe this was the bullet that was found on the stretcher.

Mr. Specter.

Would you have any opinion as to the velocity of that bullet at the time it struck the Governor's thigh?
Dr. OLIVIER. No. We didn't do any work to simulate this, but it would have been at a very low velocity just to have gone in that far and drop out again.
Mr. SPECTER, Dr. Olivier, in the regular course of your work for the U.S. Army, do you have occasion to perform tests on reconstructed human skulls to determine the effects of bullets on skulls?
Dr. OLIVIER. Yes; I do.

Mr. Specter.

And did you have occasion to conduct such a test in connection with the series which you are now describing?
Dr. OLIVIER. Yes; I did.

Mr. Specter.

And would you outline briefly the procedures for simulating the human skull?
Dr. OLIVIER. Human skulls, we take these human skulls and they are imbedded and filled with 20 percent gelatin. As I mentioned before, 20 percent gelatin is a pretty good simulant for body tissues.
They are in the moisture content. When I say 20 percent, it is 20 percent weight of the dry gelatin, 80 percent moisture.
The skull, the cranial cavity, is filled with this and the surface is coated with a gelatin and then it is trimmed down to approximate the thickness of the tissues overlying the skull, the soft tissues of the head.

Mr. Specter.

And at what distance were these tests performed?
Dr. OLIVER. These tests were performed at a distance of 90 yards.

Mr. Specter.

And what gun was used?
Dr. OLIVER. It was a 6.5 Mannlicher-Carcano that was marked Commission Exhibit 139.

Mr. Specter.

What bullets were used?
Dr. OLIVER. It was the 6.5 millimeter Mannlicher-Carcano Western ammunition lot 6,000.

Mr. Specter.

What did that examination or test, rather, disclose?
Dr. OLIVER. It disclosed that the type of head wounds that the President received could be done by this type of bullet. This surprised me very much, because this type of a stable bullet I didn't think would cause a massive head wound, I thought it would go through making a small entrance and exit, but the bones of the skull are enough to deform the end of this bullet causing it to expend a lot of energy and blowing out the side of the skull or blowing out fragments of the skull.

Mr. Specter.

I now hand you a case containing bullet fragments marked Commission Exhibit 857 and ask if you have ever seen those fragments before.
Dr. OLIVIER. Yes, I have.

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