lengths and also used horsemeat and goatmeat placed in a box so that--this was a little harder to get the exact length but that varied between 13 1/2 and 14 1/2 cm. of muscle tissue.

Mr. Specter.

Did that simulate, then, the portion of the President's body through which the bullet is reported to have passed, as closely as you could for your testing purposes?
Dr. OLIVIER. As closely as we could for these test purposes; yes.

Mr. Specter.

I now hand you a photograph marked as Commission Exhibit No. 847 and ask you to testify as to what that depicts?
Dr. OLIVIER. This is a box containing--I couldn't say looking at it whether it is the horsemeat or the goatmeat but one of the two. The distance traveled through that meat would be 13 1/2 to 14 1/2 centimeters. It is also covered with clothing and clipped goatskin on the entrance and exit sides, and behind that are the screens for measuring the exit velocity. We had already determined the striking velocity by firing I believe it was--I have it right here if you want----

Mr. Specter.

Before you proceed to that, describe the type of screens which are shown in the picture which were used to measure exit velocity, if you please?
Dr. OLIVIER. Yes. These screens are known as the break-type screen. They are silver imprinted on paper and when the bullet passes through it breaks the current. When it passes through the first screen it breaks the current activating a chronograph, counting chronograph. When it passes through the second screen it stops. This is over a known distance, and so the time that it took to pass between the first and the second will give you the average velocity halfway between the two screens.

Mr. Specter.

I now hand you a photograph marked Commission Exhibit 848 and ask you to describe what that shows?
Dr. OLIVIER. This was a similar setup used for firing through gelatin. It had clothing and skin over the entrance side only. If it had been placed on the other side it would have just flown off.

Mr. Specter.

And that is similar to that depicted in 846?
Dr. OLIVIER. Essentially; yes.

Mr. Specter.

Except that it is----
Dr. OLIVIER. Gelatin instead of the tissues.

Mr. Specter.

Now at what range was the firing performed on the gelatin, goatmeat and horsemeat?
Dr. OLIVIER. This firing was done at a 60-yard range.

Mr. Specter.

And what gun was used?
Dr. OLIVIER. The 6.5 Mannlicher-Carcano that was marked Commission Exhibit 139.

Mr. Specter.

And what bullets were used?
Dr. OLIVIER. The Western ammunition lot 6,000, 6.5 Mannlicher-Carcano.

Mr. Specter.

And was there any substance placed over the gelatin, horsemeat and goatmeat?
Dr. OLIVIER. Yes; over the gelatin we had clothing; had a suit, shirt and undershirt, and underneath that a clipped goatskin. The same thing was over the meat, and on the other side of the meat was also clipped goatskin.

Mr. Specter.

Would there be any significant difference to the test by leaving out the undershirt if the President had not worn an undershirt?
Dr. OLIVIER. No.

Mr. Specter.

So that the circumstance was simulated with the actual type clothing and a protective skin over the substance just as realistically as you could make it?
Dr. OLIVIER. Yes.

Mr. Specter.

What measurement was obtained as to the entrance velocity of the bullet at the distance of 60 yards which you described?
Dr. OLIVIER. The striking velocity at an average of three shots was 1,904 feet per second.

Mr. Specter.

And what was the average exit velocity on each of the substances used?
Dr. OLIVIER. For the gelatin the average exit velocity was 1,779 feet per