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(Testimony of James J. Rowley)
Mr. Rankin.
regulations is a violation, because they are subject to the call and must be ready at any moment to perform their duties.
Mr. Rowley.
They certainly do, because there have been situations, whether or not they have had it with the Kennedy administration I don't know--but I know there have been situations where we have moved fast, all hours of the night. I remember one instance, that has never been disclosed---as Mr. Dulles knows, you never advertise your successes, you just get the other things---that I would like to give you as an example off the record, to answer your question, if I may.
The Chairman.
Off the record.
(Discussion off the record.)
The Chairman.
Back on the record.
Chief, it seems to me that on an assignment of that kind, to be alert at all times is one of the necessities of the situation. And I just wonder if you believe that men who did what these men did, being out until early morning hours, doing a little even a small amount of drinking--would be as alert the next day as men should be when they are charged with the tremendous responsibility of protecting the President.
Mr. Rowley.
Well, we checked on that, Mr. Chief Justice, and the agent in charge reported that they were in good physical condition. I don't condone these late hours; no. This is not a rule. This case is an exception. However, because of the activities of any travel such as the Presidents today make from one place to another, to maybe seven States in a weekend, there is constant going.
I don't condone this at all. But these men are young. They are of such age that I think that they responded in this instance adequately and sufficiently as anyone could under the circumstances.
The Chairman.
Well, I am thinking of this. As you go along in the motorcade, you have men who are scanning the buildings along the way, don't you?
Mr. Rowley.
Yes, sir.
The Chairman.
And they have submachineguns in one of the cars.
Mr. Rowley.
No; for security reasons, I would like to--we don't have machine-guns now, sir.
The Chairman.
I just thought I heard that from the record here, that they had some kind of guns.
Mr. Rowley.
They had a weapon, a new weapon; yes, sir.
Mr. Chairman.
Well, whatever it is.
Now, other people, as they went along there, even some people in the crowds, saw a man with a rifle up in this building from which the President was shot. Now, don't you think that if a man went to bed reasonably early, and hadn't been drinking the night before, would be more alert to see those things as a Secret Service agent, than if they stayed up until 3, 4, or 5 o'clock in the morning, going to beatnik joints and doing some drinking along the way?
Mr. Rowley.
If I remember that witness testimony--and that was one of the first statements that he made that witness was with his wife, and he happened to look up there, and I think he said, "There is a man with a rifle, it is a Secret Service man," and let it go at that. He didn't inform any of the authorities.
The Chairman.
No; nobody did. But I say wouldn't an alert Secret Service man in this motorcade, who is supposed to observe such things, be more likely to observe something of that kind if he was free from any of the results of liquor or lack of sleep than he would otherwise?
Mr. Rowley.
Well, yes; he would be. But then, on the other hand, Mr. Chief Justice, in some instances the men come in from a trip at 1:30 in the morning, which there have been cases on travels that I have made, and have to be up at 3:30 or 4 o'clock, and out in time for a 5 o'clock departure. Then you go all that day until 1 or 2 o'clock the next morning. This is what has happened in the past.
The. CHAIRMAN. I am not talking about the past. We are talking about nine men here who were out until rather unusual hours of the morning.
Mr. Rowley.
Yes, sir.
The Chairman.
They were to be on duty the next day.
The next day---or if not sooner.
The next day they were supposed to be alert to anything that might occur
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