(Testimony of Abram Chayes Resumed)
Mr. Chayes.
By and large the Passport Office knows people whom the FBI is interested in,. and when they apply for a passport or something like that, there is an exchange of information. It is interesting that this CIA report got to the passport Office. It is a matter of routine. All security reports of this kind that originate in the security agencies, copies go to the Passport office and are put in the passport file. So that there is a great deal of coordination. But in the nature of things it can't be a perfect system when the two kinds of responsibilities are differently allocated, the security responsibility in one case and the other responsibility in another.
Representative Ford.
When did the CIA report of the Mexican trip get into the passport file?
Mr. Chayes.
It is not clear to me here. It is probably about 10-11-63 is what it looks like to me from the date, October 11, 1963. But on the other hand, note that this report--we pay a great deal of attention to the fact that it got into the passport file. But the report itself originated in the CIA. Copy of it went to the FBI. In other words, all the security agencies themselves knew of this fact. As I say, myself, I think it did not change the character of the file so as to warrant the withdrawal of a passport from the passport administration point of view. But even if we had taken steps to withdraw the passport, it is hard to see how it had any impact on the result at all.
Representative Ford.
Leave aside the tragic result. Under your current procedures if such a situation developed, would there be an administrative step taken to try and retrieve the passport?
Mr. Chayes.
Under current procedures what would have happened in June, when he first made application, was that there would have been a lookout card in the file, and before automatically issuing a passport there would have been a review of the file and some further investigative steps. Now that investigation would have inquired into the purpose of travel abroad, and a determination would then have been made whether the purpose of travel on the basis of the file--and remember when. we do deny a passport we are then subject to hearing, administrative hearing and judicial review, and we have got to make the denial and the evidence on which it is based stand up in those circumstances---but if we determined that there was a basis then for denial we would have denied it then. So the question wouldn't have arisen later in October. If at the time in June we had determined after investigation that there was no basis for denial, then the passport would have been issued, and if a matter of this kind had come in, there would have been, I suppose, an administrative determination to decide whether, in the light of the earlier investigation, whether this new information warranted any further action or further investigation.
Representative Ford.
Would it be your judgment that the June determination, using your new criteria, would have resulted in a refusal of this passport?
Mr. Chayes.
Not on the basis of the file as then existed It is hard to answer your hypothetical question because under our new procedures there would have been a further investigation that would either have turned up some additional material, or would have left the file in its present state. If there was no additional material suggesting the evil purposes or improper purposes for travel, the decision to give a passport would have been the same as it was on the file. On the basis of the file, the decision was properly made.
Representative Ford.
Would you in the June determination have had the files from the Department of State which showed that on October 31 Oswald walked into the American Embassy.
Mr. Chayes.
Oh, yes.
Representative Ford.
And said "I, Lee Harvey Oswald, do hereby request that my present citizenship in the United States of America be revoked."
Mr. Chayes.
Oh, yes; the entire file.
Representative Ford.
And would it also have had the one of November 3d where he said "I, Lee Harvey Oswald, do hereby request that my present United States citizenship be revoked"?
Mr. Chayes.
Yes; it would have had all of that.
Representative Ford.
It would have had all of that?
Mr. Chayes.
Yes.
Representative Ford.
And it would have had the----
|
