Mr. Coleman.

The record shows it is Commission Exhibit No. 935.

Mr. Mcvickar.

And the item is on page 2, and it says, "He is attempting to arrange for his wife to join him in Moscow so she can appear at the Embassy for a visa interview in the next day or two."
And then there is a later despatch dated October 12, 1961, which encloses the text of certain letters addressed to the Embassy by Oswald, and one of them is a letter dated July 15, 1961.

Mr. Dulles.

Moscow?

Mr. Mcvickar.

No; apparently from Minsk after he had returned.

Mr. Dulles.

Oh, Minsk.

Mr. Mcvickar.

And it says that: "While we were still in Moscow the foreman at her place of work was notified that she and I went to the Embassy for the purpose of visas."
Well now, it seems clear that she did in fact go to the Embassy in early July, and that this interview that I had with her undoubtedly took place then approximately the 12th or 13th of July.

Mr. Coleman.

Wouldn't you say that it took place, sir, on the 11th of July?

Mr. Mcvickar.

It probably took place then on the 11th of July, except that this despatch here, which was dated the 11th, said that she was coming in, in the next couple of days.
No, no; this says that he appeared at the Embassy on July 8, and so this was probably prepared on the 8th of July.
I would say then it must have taken place on the 11th of July.

Mr. Coleman.

It is your testimony, therefore, that Commission Exhibit No. 959, which is the petition to classify status of alien for issuance of immigrant visa, was prepared on July 11, 1961?

Mr. Mcvickar.

Oh, yes; that is correct.

Mr. Coleman.

That was probably the day that Marina came into the Embassy?

Mr. Mcvickar.

Probably the day she came into the Embassy, and probably the day on which I interviewed her.

Mr. Coleman.

And, therefore, the notes, Commission Exhibit No. 945, were apparently made on July 11?

Mr. Mcvickar.

Yes; apparently made then on July 11. They formed the basis of this later communication of August 28, and I now think that the reason that this was not done sooner, was because it was not an urgent matter, because they had not yet received exit visas, and we were in the process of processing cases that had received exit visas, and were ready to go, and no one could tell when they might get Soviet exit visas.

Mr. Dulles.

Which is the chicken and which is the egg here? I mean, do you get your exit visas before you know whether you are going to get into the country of destination, or do you get your permission to go to the United States before you get your exit visa?

Mr. Mcvickar.

In an ordinary country you would apply for your American visa, and then apply for your exit visa, or permission to depart from the country, after you had your American visa.
But in this case, in the Soviet Union, it was reversed because it was so difficult to get exit visas.
The American Government never bothered with any of its papers other than to just take record of the interest of the people, until after they had received permission to depart from the Soviet Union at which point we processed their papers expeditiously.
But usually there was very little done in the American documentation until after they had received an exit visa from the Soviet Union.

Mr. Coleman.

Sir, you then on August 28, 1961, prepared the Operations Memorandum which has been given Commission Exhibit No. 944; is that correct?

Mr. Mcvickar.

Yes; that was the date of the memorandum.

Mr. Coleman.

Now in that memorandum you indicated that Marina had been in to see you; is that correct?

Mr. Mcvickar.

The memorandum does not specifically state that. It merely gives data necessary to the determination by the Department of State of the legal status of this individual.