Mr. Ruby.

Unless you get me to Washington immediately, I am afraid after what Mr. Tonahill has written there, which is unfair to me regarding my testimony here--you all want to hear what he wrote?
Chief Justice WARREN. Yes; you might read it. If you need glasses again, try mine this time (handing glasses to Mr. Ruby).

Mr. Ruby.

"This is the girl"----

Mr. Tonahill.

"Thing," isn't it?

Mr. Ruby.

"This is the thing that started Jack in the shooting."

Mr. Tonahill.

Kathy Kay was talking about Oswald.

Mr. Ruby.

You are lying, Joe Tonahill. You are lying.

Mr. Tonahill.

No; I am not.

Mr. Ruby.

You are lying, because you know what motivated me. You want to make it that it was a premeditation.

Mr. Tonahill.

No.

Mr. Ruby.

Yes; you do.

Mr. Tonahill.

I don't think there was any premeditation, but you go ahead and tell it your way. That is what we want you to do. That is what the Chief Justice wants.

Mr. Ruby.

Not when you specify this. You are Senator Rankin?

Mr. Rankin.

No; I am the general counsel for our Commission, Mr. Ruby.

Mr. Tonahill.

You go on and keep telling it down to Caroline and the truth.
Chief Justice WARREN. Mr. Ruby, may I suggest this, that if we are to have any tests, either a lie detector or, as you suggest, maybe a truth serum--I don't know anything about truth serum, but if we are to have it, we have to have something to check against, and we would like to have the rest of your story as you started to tell us, because you are now getting down to the crucial part of it, and it wouldn't be fair to you to have this much of it and then not have the rest.

Mr. Ruby.

Because the reason why, Joe knows from the time that I told Attorney Belli, and the story I wanted to tell on the stand, and Mr. Tonahill knows this isn't the time. The thought never entered my mind. He knows it.

Mr. Tonahill.

I didn't say the thought entered your mind. I didn't say that.

Mr. Ruby.

You are inferring that.

Mr. Tonahill.

Unconsciously, maybe, is what I meant to say.

Mr. Ruby.

Why go back to Friday, Joe?

Mr. Tonahill.

You are going to come right down----

Mr. Ruby.

Why go back to Friday? That set me off.
Then it is a greater premeditation than you know is true.

Mr. Tonahill.

I don't say it is premeditation. I never have. I don't think it is.

Mr. Ruby.

Because it never entered my mind when they talked about, the officer, cutting him into bits. You would like to have built it up for my defense, but that is not it. I am here to tell the truth.

Mr. Tonahill.

The psychiatrist said that to me.

Mr. Ruby.

You want to put that into my thoughts, but it never happened. I took it with a grain of salt what he said at that particular time. Well, it is too bad, Chief Warren, that you didn't get me to your headquarters 6 months ago.
Chief Justice WARREN. Well, Mr. Ruby, I will tell you why we didn't. Because you were then about to be tried and I didn't want to do anything that would prejudice you in your trial. And for that reason, I wouldn't even consider asking you to testify until your trial was over. That is the only reason that we didn't talk to you sooner.
And I wish we had gotten here a little sooner after your trial was over, but I know you had other things on your mind, and we had other work, and it got to this late date.
But I assure you, there is no desire on our part to let this matter go to any late date for any ulterior purpose. I assure you of that. And as I told you at the beginning, if you want a test of some kind made, I will undertake to see that it is done.