(Testimony of Robert A. Frazier Resumed)
Representative Ford.
ago, is there any evidence that a third shot hit the car or any occupant of the car?
Mr. Frazier.
Assuming all those assumptions we had before; no. I would say that, and again I have not the technical evidence to back this up one way or the other but you make these assumptions and I would say under those conditions only two shots hit the occupants or the car because the one through the President had to cause Connally's wound otherwise it would have struck somewhere else in the car and it did not strike somewhere else.
Therefore, it had to go through Governor Connally.
And the second shot had to strike the President in the head.
Mr. Mccloy.
How about these shots you spoke of, one of the fragments, at least, hitting the glass, the windshield and one possibly hitting the chrome. Was there anything, could it have been any fragmentation of the first shot which didn't hit, the first shot that hit the President, let's say, but didn't hit Connally, might that again make the possibility of three shots, one of them hitting the President and fragmenting as you indicated, and a second one hitting Connally, and the third one hitting the President for the lethal shot.
Mr. Frazier.
Under that circumstance the bullet exiting from the President would have had to strike something else in the car to break it up.
Mr. Mccloy.
Break it up inasmuch as it was broken up?
Mr. Frazier.
Yes, sir; there was no evidence that the bullet which exited from the President was in any but complete condition, that is there was only one hole through the shirt, there was only one hole through his coat or shirt actually and the testimony of the medical examiners was that it made a relatively straight path through the body.
Mr. Specter.
That completes my questions of Mr. Frazier.
Mr. Dulles.
Could I ask just one more question?
Mr. Specter.
Yes, sir; Mr. Dulles.
Mr. Dulles.
There has been a certain amount of testimony indicating there was a longer pause between the report of the first shot or what is believed to be the report, explosion of the first shot and the second and third shots, that is not absolutely unanimous but I would say it is something like 5 to 1 or something of that kind, what would you say, 2 to 1, 3 to 1?
(Discussion off the record.)
Mr. Dulles.
Is it possible that the assassin attempted to fire when the car was behind the tree or going into the tree, that that shot went astray, and that that accounts for, if there was a longer delay between one and two, that would account for it, and then the lethal shots were fired or the wound, the one shot that was fired that hit the two and then the lethal shot was fired immediately after. It is speculation.
Mr. Mccloy.
I think that must be speculation because there certainly is conflicting evidence as to the intervals between the first and the second shot and the second and the third shot.
Mr. Dulles.
I think if you will read the testimony you will find it at least 2 to 1 except for the people in the car.
Mr. Mccloy.
Maybe, but what weight do you give these, I don't know. I think that is quite possible that a bullet was deflected by that tree, but there is no evidence whatever of the bullet landing anywhere in the street or among the crowd.
And yet there seems to be no doubt at all that three shots were fired.
Mr. Dulles.
That seems to be the evidence.
Mr. Mccloy.
At least three shots were fired, and probably three shots were fired because of the three shells that were found.
Mr. Dulles.
Three shells?
Mr. Mccloy.
Yes.
Mr. Dulles.
We probably won't settle that today.
Mr. Frazier.
I don't know how to answer that question except possibly to go back to the frame numbers of the Zapruder film and you will find they are about equally spaced from frame 161 just before the tree to frame, say, 220, which is just a few frames after the tree, that is 59 or approximately 60 frames, from that point. But from frame 222 to the last shot of frame 313 is 78 and 13, 91 frames, so there is more time between the second and third than the first and
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