(Testimony of Winston G. , Accompanied By Fred B. Smith, Lawson)
Mr. Lawson.
Yes, sir; if you were going in a motorcade at 50 or 60 miles an hour and then all of sudden there was some reason why something narrowed down and you had to slow up or you knew there was going to be a big crowd here and the President would probably slow his vehicle like he usually did for big crowds and stand up and wave, then you would be more concerned about those windows in that area than other areas. This motorcade to my knowledge, we went 15 or 20 miles an hour through most of it except the downtown section at about 7 or 10.
Mr. Mccloy.
10 or 7 did you say?
Mr. Lawson.
Yes, sir; 7 to 10 miles an hour.
Mr. Dulles.
In this case I assume that if anyone had been looking at windows, the car that would have seen the rifle and the man would have been a car several cars back from the President's car, is that not correct?
Mr. Mccloy.
It might have been the other.
Representative Ford.
The testimony of one of these young men that we had, if it is accurate, I would have thought that the lead car might have seen. the Book Depository.
Mr. Stern.
We will hear testimony from another passenger in the lead car, Mr. Sorrels, who was in charge of the Dallas Secret Service Office, that as the car turned from Houston onto Elm, he saw people in the windows of the School Book Depository Building. He cannot recall seeing anyone on the sixth floor, and it is more likely that he saw people on the fifth floor from his descriptions He saw some Negro employees. But he could see from the lead car people in the Book Depository Building as it came in view around the corner.
Mr. Mccloy.
Did you see anybody in the School Book Depository?
Mr. Lawson.
No, sir; at this point Just as we started around that corner I asked Chief Curry if it was not true that we were probably 5 minutes from the Trade Mart, and it is quite usual to make a radio call to your next point of stop that you are 5 minutes away. Therefore right about the time we turned that corner and were a little ways past it, I am sure I was speaking on the radio, because the White House Communications Agency has about the time I gave the 5 minutes away warning signal, and within seconds after that the shots were fired.
Representative Ford.
As you came or as the lead ear came down Houston Street----
Mr. Lawson.
Yes, sir.
Representative Ford.
You were facing the Texas School Depository?
Mr. Lawson.
Right.
Representative Ford.
Did you look at or scan that building?
Mr. Lawson.
I do not, no, because part of my job is to look backwards at the President's car. The speed of the motorcade is controlled by the President's car, unless it is an emergency situation. If he stands up and is waving at the crowd and there are quite a few crowds then, of course, the car goes slower. If the density of the crowd is quite scarce or there is a time factor why you are going faster. So the person in the lead car in this rolling command car usually keeps turning around and watching the President's ear. If his car comes up on our bumper that means we are not going fast enough and we should go faster, and you tell the command officer to call the motorcycles, the pilot car, et cetera, to move out faster. If you notice that his car is dropping back from you, that means their car wants to go slower and you do the same thing in reverse. So I was watching the crowds along the sides, requesting Chief Curry to move motorcycles up or back, depending on the crowd, move them up towards the President's car because at certain times people were almost out to the car, and to use them as kind of a wedge. Other times they were able to drop back or go forward, so that I was looking back a good deal of the time, watching his car, watching the sides, watching the crowds, giving advice or asking advice from the Chief and also looking ahead to the known hazards like overpasses, underpasses, railroads, et cetera.
Representative Ford.
But as the lead car turned from Main onto Houston and proceeded toward Elm, you were more preoccupied with looking at the President?
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