Mr. Eisenberg.

How long have you been working, Mr. Simmons, in the area of evaluation of weapons?

Mr. Simmons.

Since 1951, in various classes of weapons.
Since 1957, however, I have had the responsibility for the laboratories on small arms.

Mr. Eisenberg.

Has part of it---of these---have part of these evaluations been conducted with military rifles, Mr. Simmons?

Mr. Simmons.

Most of our evaluations have been associated with military rifles.

Mr. Eisenberg.

How long altogether have you spent in this area?

Mr. Simmons.

In the area of rifles?

Mr. Eisenberg.

Yes.

Mr. Simmons.

Some experience beginning from about 1953. I have been continuously concerned with this since 1957.

Mr. Eisenberg.

Can you give a rough estimate of how many weapons you have evaluated as to accuracy?

Mr. Simmons.

No. We have been concerned with almost all of the weapons which the Army has tested, either in preliminary stages or as developmental weapons.

Mr. Eisenberg.

But your specialty is the evaluation of weapons systems, including military rifles, and you have been engaged in this for 13 years, as to all weapons systems, and since 1953 as to--

Mr. Simmons.

Yes, that is correct.

Mr. Mccloy.

In the course of that you have examined hundreds of rifles, though, have you not?

Mr. Simmons.

Well, our examination of rifles is not the detailed engineering, design experiment which a gunsmith or a rifle expert as such would concern himself with. We are more concerned with establishing a framework by which we can put numbers to the performance of military rifles in tactical employment. And this means that for a specific--specific classes of weapons, we have had to establish, for example, round-to-round dispersion, the accuracy with which they can be employed, and the wounding power of the projectiles.

Mr. Mccloy.

In the course of this you have fired a great many rifles yourself?

Mr. Simmons.

No, sir; I don't fire them.

Mr. Mccloy.

Somebody else fires them?

Mr. Simmons.

Yes.

Mr. Mccloy.

But you make the studies in relation to the accuracy of the weapons?

Mr. Simmons.

Yes, that is correct. The firing is accomplished by employees of the development and proof services, which is the weapons testing facility at the Aberdeen Proving Ground.

Mr. Mccloy.

Your task is primarily evaluation--

Mr. Simmons.

Yes, sir.

Mr. Mccloy.

Of the characteristics of the rifle, particularly in terms of its accuracy and its wounding power, killing power?

Mr. Simmons.

Yes, sir.

Mr. Eisenberg.

Mr. Chairman, may this witness be admitted as an expert to testify in this area?

Mr. Mccloy.

Yes.

Mr. Eisenberg.

Mr. Simmons, did you conduct a test from a machine rest, a test of round-to- round dispersion of this weapon, or have such tests conducted?

Mr. Simmons.

May I check the serial number?

Mr. Eisenberg.

I should ask first if you are familiar with this weapon.
I have handed the witness Commission Exhibit 139.

Mr. Simmons.

Yes. We fired this weapon from a machine rest for round-to-round dispersion. We fired exactly 20 rounds in this test, and the dispersion which we measured is of conventional magnitude, about the same that we get with our present military rifles, and the standard deviation of dispersion is .29 mil.

Mr. Eisenberg.

That is a fraction of a degree?

Mr. Simmons.

A mil is an angular measurement. There are 17.7 mils to a degree.