Mr. Frazier.

and that telescopic sight, I would not have allowed any lead--I would not have made any correction for lead merely to hit a target of that size.

Mr. Mccloy.

May I ask a question?
In your experimentation, in your firing of those shots that you have testified to a little while back, when you fired the first shot, was the shot in the chamber, or did you have to push it into the chamber by use of the bolt?

Mr. Frazier.

This was fired with a loaded chamber, and timed from the time of this first shot until the last shot.

Mr. Mccloy.

Did you shoot offhand or did you shoot with a rest?

Mr. Frazier.

We shot with a rest, both the other individuals and myself, on each occasion, with one arm resting on a bench or a table.

Mr. Mccloy.

Were you prone, or were you standing up?

Mr. Frazier.

Well, we were sitting, actually, sitting or kneeling, in order to bring the arm down to the rest we were using.

Mr. Mccloy.

One other question.
You keep referring to, and the questions kept referring to, "lead." By "lead," in this instance, you would mean height above the aiming point rather--

Mr. Frazier.

Yes, sir.

Mr. Mccloy.

To the right, let's say, of the aiming point?

Mr. Frazier.

Yes, sir; that is correct.

Mr. Mccloy.

Because it was a going away shot?

Mr. Frazier.

Yes, sir.

Mr. Mccloy.

That is all.

Representative Boggs.

May I ask a question?
Where did you conduct these tests?

Mr. Frazier.

The targets were fired-both on the indoor range in the FBI range here in Washington and the 10-yard tests were fired at the Quantico, Va., FBI ranges.

Representative Boggs.

Have any tests--have there been any simulated tests in the building in Texas?

Mr. Frazier.

I don't know, sir.

Representative Boggs.

But the FBI has not conducted any?

Mr. Frazier.

Not to my knowledge. There may have been measurements and things of that nature taken, but I don't know.

Representative Boggs.

Now, in these tests, was there any difficulty about firing this rifle three times within the space or period of time that has been given to the Commission--5 seconds, I think.

Mr. Frazier.

Well, let me say this, I fired the rifle three times, in accordance with that system of timing it from the first shot with the chamber loaded until the last shot occurred--three times in 4.6 seconds, 4.8 seconds, 5.6 seconds, 5.8, 5.9, and another one a little over 6, or in that neighborhood. The tenth of a second variation could very easily be as a result of the timing procedure used. A reflex of just not stopping the stopwatch in a tenth of a second.

Representative Boggs.

You were firing at a simulated target?

Mr. Frazier.

These targets previously introduced, or copies of the targets, are those which we actually fired.

Representative Boggs.

My questions are really a followup of the Chairman's question.
These practices--were you just practicing for time, or were you practicing under conditions similar to those existing in Dallas at the time of the assassination?

Mr. Frazier.

The tests we ran were for the purposes of determining whether we could fire this gun accurately in a limited amount of time, and specifically to determine whether it could be fired accurately in 6 seconds.
Now, we assumed the 6 seconds empirically--that is, we had not been furnished with any particular time interval. Later we were furnished with a time interval of 5.5 seconds. However, I have no independent knowledge--had no independent knowledge of the time interval or the accuracy. But we merely fired it to demonstrate the results from rapidly firing the weapon, reloading the gun and so on, in a limited time.